A wish . . .

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Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2009 05:14 pm
I'd like to establish a moratorium on the phrase "In my opinion," or its acronym "IMO," when posting on the forum.

If you take the time to write something that's not directly attributable to someone else and post it on a forum, I'm already operating under the assumption that it's your opinion. That's why you wrote it and posted it. If it's not your opinion, I would expect that you would note said statement accordingly.

The only phrase that raises my hackles more than "IMO" is the doubly odious "IMHO," or "in my humble opinion" Humble? Spare me. If you have to tell people you're being humble . . . you're not humble. Do yourself a favor and don't castrate the power of your convictions by tagging them with some form of spurious humility.

Say what you mean and get on with it. So a few feathers get ruffled . . . big deal.

Thank you for listening.

Tock
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2009 06:02 pm
@TickTockMan,
IMHO, the humble part is meant to be sarcastic, at least that's how I read it. I tend to agree in general with your post. I think however that not being a site subject to academic citation that many people are using a sythnthesistic paraphrasing of things they have learned and use IMO for things that are, in their opinion, unique to themselves. But i agree because it can be argued that most things internally synthesized then argued have become one's opinion.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2009 06:50 pm
@TickTockMan,
Wow, this whole time I thought the H stood for honest. I never read it as being humble and I guess if someone is truly being humble, they wouldn't even be saying anything. A humble person usually just keeps their opinions to themselves because they don't make the assumption that they know something more than someone else. Or in other words, they don't think that what they have to say needs to be said.
 
Joe
 
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2009 07:09 pm
@Krumple,
Signs, Signs, everywhere theres Signs. But I think the title describes the request perfectly. lol, its language. Are you really gonna sit there and tell us what words and acronyms are better or worse? If so we should at least make a list.:detective:

Better Worst
 
Lily
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 11:18 am
@TickTockMan,
Words interest me:Glasses: I think there's a big diffenence between saying "it is healthy to eat chocolate cake" and "IMO, it's healthy to eat chocolate cake". Not the best example maybe. Anyway, without the IMO I say the statement as a fact, but with IMO I'm just telling you my opinion. There's a difference!
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 11:24 am
@TickTockMan,
I was trying to say what Lily said there.
I think maybe what the op is saying that IMO gets overused?
 
richrf
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 12:04 pm
@Lily,
Lily;84727 wrote:
Words interest me:Glasses: I think there's a big diffenence between saying "it is healthy to eat chocolate cake" and "IMO, it's healthy to eat chocolate cake". Not the best example maybe. Anyway, without the IMO I say the statement as a fact, but with IMO I'm just telling you my opinion. There's a difference!


Yes. I agree. There is a difference between stating something as fact vs. an opinion. In normal conversation, what I say is usually taken as opinion, but on forums, especially one where we are discussing philosophy, often times members are stating what they believe to be facts. It is sometimes difficult to differentiate without some succinct statement, such as In my opinion.

Rich
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 01:00 pm
@Lily,
Lily;84727 wrote:
Words interest me:Glasses: I think there's a big diffenence between saying "it is healthy to eat chocolate cake" and "IMO, it's healthy to eat chocolate cake". Not the best example maybe. Anyway, without the IMO I say the statement as a fact, but with IMO I'm just telling you my opinion. There's a difference!


But isn't it your opinion that what you are saying is factual?

You wouldn't phrase a statement like this: "I am probably wrong, as I have nothing but anecdotal evidence to back me up, but I have this notion that chocolate cake is good for you," would you?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 01:13 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;84749 wrote:
But isn't it your opinion that what you are saying is factual?

You wouldn't phrase a statement like this: "I am probably wrong, as I have nothing but anecdotal evidence to back me up, but I have this notion that chocolate cake is good for you," would you?

That's why IMO it's easier, what you said above is a bit of a mouthful.
If you don't say something like "I believe" or IMO then you are open to attack, people can ask you to prove it.
Like I said TickTock, I thought the op, (is that allowed?) was more about the over use of IMO.
 
Lily
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 01:21 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;84749 wrote:
But isn't it your opinion that what you are saying is factual?

You wouldn't phrase a statement like this: "I am probably wrong, as I have nothing but anecdotal evidence to back me up, but I have this notion that chocolate cake is good for you," would you?

I think (and since I don't know this for a fact, and just made it up, I say"I think") there are different types of truths. There are the ones that sience can prove, or just is considered to be the truth anyway. And then there are the ones that really are personal opinions like "oranges are sweet and tastes good". That is true for me.

No wouldn't, because it so long and unecessary. But it's essentially what I'm saying.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 01:30 pm
@Lily,
Tagging your thoughts and comments with IMO's robs them of any conviction. One might as well say "Chocolate cake is good for you. If that's okay for me to say that. I mean, I don't want to make waves . . . . "


TickTockMan is a jackass.

Fact? Or opinion?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 01:38 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTock, I agree, there is a time and a place for IMO, I try to use "I believe", or "I feel" instead, thanks.
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 01:44 pm
@TickTockMan,
A long time ago I was able to read Plato in the original. I will never forget how many times Socrates uses the expression "moi dokei" or "hoos ge moi dokei", ("(as) it seems to me") during his conversations, as a way to express that a certain statement is still under investigation. The main part of the socratic method is doubt, in particular sincere doubt towards any opinion presented as the truth. Blurring the difference between fact and opinion? IMHO there's an agenda behind this, and it doesn't seem very philosophical.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 01:48 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline;84757 wrote:
TickTock, I agree, there is a time and a place for IMO, I try to use "I believe", or "I feel" instead, thanks.


I believe I'm going to call it a day and begin my weekend.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 01:57 pm
@Catchabula,
Catchabula;84758 wrote:
...sincere doubt towards any opinion presented as the truth. Blurring the difference between fact and opinion? IMHO there's an agenda behind this, and it doesn't seem very philosophical.

I don't understand what you mean and what agenda?
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 02:40 pm
@TickTockMan,
Hm, I wonder if I understand myself here ;-). I mainly thought about totalitarian ideologies where there are only truths and facts, being the particular opinions of who's in power. When there is only "true" and "false" as a criterium there is often no place for doubts, for alternative ideas and for personal opinions. Your "humble opinion" is irrelevant for such regimes, and often personal thought is even considered as some form of "thoughtcrime". What I was thinking about was the value of "imho" as the dignified expression of personal thinking as well as the valuable manifestation of "transpersonal" doubt. IMHO we must be careful with statements, instead of believing them oneself and without hesitation putting them forward as truth. Perhaps it is necessary to take a stand sometimes, but less than we tend to think...
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 03:29 pm
@TickTockMan,
You have to have an opinion sometimes!
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 03:49 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;84586 wrote:
I'd like to establish a moratorium on the phrase "In my opinion," or its acronym "IMO," when posting on the forum.

If you take the time to write something that's not directly attributable to someone else and post it on a forum, I'm already operating under the assumption that it's your opinion. That's why you wrote it and posted it. If it's not your opinion, I would expect that you would note said statement accordingly.

The only phrase that raises my hackles more than "IMO" is the doubly odious "IMHO," or "in my humble opinion" Humble? Spare me. If you have to tell people you're being humble . . . you're not humble. Do yourself a favor and don't castrate the power of your convictions by tagging them with some form of spurious humility.

Say what you mean and get on with it. So a few feathers get ruffled . . . big deal.

Thank you for listening.

Tock


The term, "in my opinion" functions to inform the reader that the writer does not expect the reader will necessarily share that opinion. No one would say, "In my opinion, 2+2=4" since he would expect everyone to have that opinion. It would be silly to talk that way. So, "in my opinion" does not just say it is the writer's opinion, in which case it would be superfluous, as you say. It is, rather a signal that the writer does not think that others will share his opinion, and is acknowledging that. And that is not superfluous.
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 03:54 pm
@TickTockMan,
Oh, but I have opinions on everything, but I will hesitate to present them as "the truth". The use of "Imho" is for me the clear expression of these personal scruples, of an essential modesty and humility. I seek the truth and I will (probably) never find it, and IMHO so won't humanity. But I try to think about the world, and what I think I find is IMHO. And I'm continuously crushed by people who know the truth, while I'm only a seeker. It's all ok with me, I have my own inner world that's beyond attack. With a view on the outer world of course. Like an animal living in a shell, filtering see-water.

Oh, 2+2=4? Winston Smith in 1984 is thought by torture that it can be 2+2=5 when the Leader says so. If Big Brother says we can fly, we can fly, but in his endless wisdom Big Brother didn't gave that order yet. But perhaps this is another problem? Too tired to continue now.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 04:04 pm
@TickTockMan,
I wasn't suggesting that opinions were truth.
 
 

 
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