Lily, could you fill me in on a few details, like your age, what you follow at school, what are your major interests, and a few other things? I'd like to talk about a few titels but in an other place. I don't think this section is suitable for this kind of questions. What do the mods think of this?

Well, I'm sixteen, like science and history and religion at school, my major intrests are: writing, photographing, baking, fashion, friends and learning. And I didn't know where to put this thread, cause it's not exactly philosophy 101, so if any moderator would want to move, or remove, this thread, just go ahead.

I enjoyed The Stranger and Crime and Punishment when I was 16 or 17, but I don't know if you would. You could try some early Joyce, like Dubliners or The Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man, or if you have read the Odyssey you could even go for Ulysses.

I suppose you already read Jostein Gaarder? If you like the genre you could try the Tales of of Mystery and Horror by Edgar Allan Poe (take a look at his poems too btw); he must be translated in swedish. Oh and you like "science, history and religion" all together? Perhaps the better Science Fiction? Good old H.G. Wells, the Robot Novels by Asimov or the weird fairy-tales by Stanislaw Lem. There is one called the Princess Ineffabelle that is truly unforgettable. And there is... so much more!! Want still more suggestions?

Yes, I've already read some of his books, and his "Sophie's world" is one of my favorite books. I loved the STAR WARS movie as and Jules Vernes books as a kid, but nowadays I'm not that into it, but I'll definetly try your suggestions. Maybe I should add that the local library isn't very big or anything. More suggestions will be appreciated. My main purpose with reading is to dream and flee away from reality for a moment. And for amusement

To fly away, I did the same when I had your age, and I still do. I still fly away, from the Orinoco Flow to the Shores of Tripoli. One more name and title: Tolkien's LOTR. But you must have passed there already...

P.S. I happen to know that Scandinavian Public Libraries are among the best in the world. If they don't have what you're asking for I'm sure they will be able to provide it by ILL (Interlibrary Loan).

The Lord of the Rings by Tolkien is classic.

To add my support to some already mentioned works:
Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky
Anything written by Edgar Allan Poe

While English is not your native language, I bet you can handle Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises in English. It is certainly an exciting book. One of my favorites.

Other suggestions:
Notes From the Underground - Dostoevsky
Hedda Gabler - Ibsen (he was Norwegian)
Don Quixote - Cervantes, and endlessly amusing
Hamlet - Shakespeare
Demon in the Freezer - Richard Preston, I don't know if you will be able to find this book, it is non-fiction dealing with bio-weapons, but the method of writing is riveting, quite different from most non-fiction.
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass - Lewis Carrol
Nectar in a Sieve - Kamala Markandaya
On the Road - Jack Kerouac
Madame Bovary - Flaubert

Yes, we can add and add. Perhaps the stories and shorter novels of Hemingway (in particular the Old man and the Sea, the Snows of the Kilimanjaro...). To fly away there is a quality adventure line, like Henry Rider Haggard ("She"), or the Horatio Hornblower series. And perhaps it's time to meet the classic anti-utopias like 1984 and Brave New World. Really, this is a never-ending story ;-) .

how about Voltaire - a type of fictional philosophy

my version of "Candide" includes many AWESOME additional short stories like "zadig" and "micromegas"

Candide is a great read - though, for a first time, I recommend an edition with extensive footnotes.

And, yeah Catch - any Hemingway is going to be a great choice. His short story collections are as good as any novel.

Honestly, if you are into classics and myths as well as history, look no farther than Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. Both books have something for the entire family, like vengeful Gods, infidelity and sexual double standards, boats, etc. LOL! The best part is, these titles are such multi-cultural classics that they have been more than adequately translated into almost every language imaginable.

Like Catchabula and Didymos said, Lord of the Rings is a great pick. But not only The Lord of the Rings trilogy, but also The HobbitandThe Silmarilllion by J.R.R. Tolkien. I would especially recommend Silmarillion because it has such an interesting dynamic of Mythical History and unique Cosmogony. Imagine an author who goes so far as to lay out the entire history of a fictional world as well as it's metaphysical origins in order to bring about such a vibrant world such as middle earth. I love the cosmogony of the book though because Tolkien manages to blend all of the best aspects of every single cosmology, from Greek Pantheism and Hinduism to Christianity and Islam . One little tidbit I remember is about the creation of the universe (within the context of Tolkien's world is concerned) where in Eru (a.k.a. God/Illuvatar), living alone in the void of the universe essentially sings the "spheres of the world" into existence. A fantastic notion he puts forward is that the universe attunes itself to a rhythm of creation, or what Tolkien refers to as a "great music" which provides logical structure and harmony to the entire universe. You then read on how Eru creates the ancient creatures of the world, where they came from, where they go, how the elves come about and what they did to get to where they are in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, as well as the origins of good and evil. Also, there are numerous small epics and stories interwoven into the book that make it interesting and memorable as well. I definitely do not do Tolkien credit though in this very small summarization though because he manages to put everything together and convey it in such an epic and beautiful way that it is just as well that he had put the Silmarillion together as Eru did the universe. Fantastic read! Also, if you like that, you may also like The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. I still remember reading that book many years ago, which just goes to show how good it was.

Honestly, I would not recommend any philosophy books for pleasure reading though? they are pretty much droll compared to Tolkien and Silmarillion. Faust by Goethe is very interesting and well as intellectually stimulating. It's definitely a classic. One of my favorite quotes comes from Faust; "I studied Medicine, Law, and Jurisprudence? and worst of all Theology! Alas, here I am for all my lore the wretched fool I was before." Its great stuff, and the story isn't half bad either.

Hahan, VideCorSpoon, the Story of Faust "isn't half bad either"? This most complex story on sin and redemption man has ever conceived? It's one of those stories you go through life with, like Hamlet or the Odyssee, and perhaps Lily has also some knowledge of German, because imho Faust loses a lot in translation (less in the french translation of De Nerval than in the english one of Bayard Taylor, because Nerval has some affinity with the "gothic" flavour of the story). Try to find an edition containing the illustrations of Gustave Dor?, a frenchman who also captures very well the "Geist" of the book. You have to read it when you're ready for it, the Faust is not just advisable, it's essential and inevitable. Perhaps you could begin with reading more about the figure of Faust himself and what he did. There are several Faust-anthologies, containing pieces from the "Volksbuch", from Marlowe etc. I'll send you a little thing I wrote about Faust myself once. Meanwhile I adher completely to Vid's suggestions.

On the subject of German works and Lord of the Rings, I have wondered what a literal translation of Der Ring des Nibelungen would be like if you read it through instead of seeing the performance. Lord of the Rings is epic... but the Ring of the Nibelung is EPIC!!!! And to be honest, one really has to wonder how much of Lord of the Rings is actually a guised version of Das Rhinegold or any other of the installments. I saw one of the last true-to-the-original-way-Wagner-intended-it performances to be played at the New York Metropolitan a few months ago in the four installments. Unfortunately, they are replacing it with a more modern variation, which I understand is going to be rubbish. But anyway, maybe it would be a good book to read (I think amazon has literal translations). Will Wotan ever win? LOL! Seriously though, no one ever wins as far as the ring goes... you just do a little better each time.

Hey Lily,
Have you read Alice In Wonderland yet?

Okey, thank you all very much, I have a lot of reading to do it seems like. But what about something a little bit more romantic? Is a Bront? book worth reading? I think I'll also try to find something by the brothers Grimm. But does anyone know if there's an actuall book of the old french fairytale "Beauty and the Best"? It was my favorite disney movie when I grew up, and I got interested in the original version when I was doing a school project.


No, I study spanish, qu? aburrido..

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Yes, I read it last year. I thought it was really good

VideCorSpoon, this is a part of the study of comparative literature, in particular what is called Thematology or "Stoffgeschichte". Some themes in literature -and some works in particular- seem to tap straight from the collective subconscious and are a clear manifestation of it. And as such are somehow repeated over and over in literary history. In the three "stages" of Tolkien -The Hobbit, The LOTR and The Silmarillion- the clearest theme is a Quest, and in at least two it's clearly a con-quest. Now isn't conquest -of gold or whatever- one of the most obvious traits of (western) man? Seeking for gold in the bowels of the Earth? Yes, seems like alchemy! Here's Faust for you, western man conquering the truth with science and sword. This is so extensive that we should talk about this elsewhere. Lily already has the "embarrassment of choice"...

And Lily. Reading is always good, not to say an absolute necessity. But I personally didn't like the Br?nte novels very much, though Wuthering Heights is still very readable (and had an awful lot of audio-visual adaptations). What I really didn't like were the "fat scandinavians", like Sigrid Undset, Olav Hulvaag... are they still read in Sweden? If you like "fat" books you better chose the russians. "Crime and Punishment" is unforgetable.. but this has been said before!

Oh, and I just looked up a few things on "Beauty and the Beast". I first thought it was originally from Perrault (Tales of Mother Goose), but it's roots are going back to an age-old popular tale. And isn't it all symbolic too?

Catchabula,

It is extremely fascinating. Even beyond the common theme of quest, I think that above all there is a natural pedagogy to Rings and Nibelung, especially when it comes to the booty (the gold). The Rhinegold returns to the Rhine (from where it came) just as the Ring of power returns to Mt. Doom (where it was forged). Poetic and romantic in the same breath, how the natural elements of a fictional world still carry the same connotations as they would in the real world. Not so much in the greed for the gold part, but more in the natural processes of the environment. Its (Spinoza's) Natura naturans in a book? which ironically, would fit very well with his overall metaphysical theory.

Lily,

You will not be disappointed with anything Charlotte Bronte. Jane Eyre is a fantastic book to read, and it's a classic any which way you look at it. It is a Gothic Horror, but it is honestly all about Jane and Edward. I'll admit, it's a bit dark at times and you cannot help but feel sorry for the wrong people, but it is definitely worth the time to read. The evolution of the relationship between Jane and Rochester is charming to say the least, and the twist at the end is worth it.

It's funny that you mention the Grimm brothers and old fairy tales. I'm sure there is a book out there (and if anybody knows, please tell me) that explains the modern fairy tale, the old fairy tale, and the modifications of the Grimm brothers. Cinderella for example is definitely something that I think is far better off in the Disney version then the original or the Grimm version. The original version of the glass slipper part (which I have been able to find up until the immediate Grimm alteration) was actually pretty nasty. The sisters, in an effort to fit into the "magic slipper," essentially mutilate their feet in order to fit into the shoe (described in a good amount of detail too). And after the Prince picks Cinderella, birds peck out the sisters and mothers eyes for their deeds. And you think that is somewhat interesting, you should hear the original of Little Red Riding Hood. Suffice to say that Red dies, but before she dies she eats part of her grandmother, and stripteases at a certain point for the wolf. Oh... and the woodsman...yeah... he never shows up. Sleep tight little timmy. LOL!

Videcorspoon, the narrative structure of gold-won-and-lost is so common there must be some fundamental truth behind it (call it a revelation), that almost goes beyond morality and touches the metaphysical. Gold has the particular power to corrupt, and Edmond Dant?s has his revenge but loses his beloved Merc?des (and perhaps his soul). And who will ever forget "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre", before being a John Huston film a novel by the mysterious Ben Traven? If I remember well, according to Jung the proces of producing gold in the Ars Magna is only possible by inner transformation, the process itself being what's important and not the result. This is also the basic mechanism for most stories, especially the epic kind, and once the job done the Fellowship has almost no other choice than to leave Middle Earth. Imho there's indeed a fascinating analogy between the developments of a story and the unfolding of the world, I even tried to articulate that in a blog-entry some days ago. Several hypostases of the Source leading to the world of man and to his poor mind, and perhaps "gold" meaning a step too far here, being a metaphor for our eternal hubris. Of course there's also the recurring theme of the Ouroboros or the "Ewige Wiederkehr", possibly inspired by natural cycles. Have you ever browsed through Finnegan's Wake? It is as the universe itself, ending... beginning... ending....

The Br?ntes have a "gothic" side and I remember a strong Orson Welles in what is still the best filmic adaptation of Jane Eyre ("gloomy" is the word I think). Imho not only fairy-tales tap largely from the collective subconscious, but even the most of literature. Certainly psycho-analysis feels quite at home between legends, myths and sagas (yes, they are different), and a mutilated foot, dr. Freud... ;-) ? Oh, one more thing, and I know it's pretty personal, but I wondered what a lawyer with an expertise in logic thinks of the Revelationes Alanielis? No answer needed really, I just wondered about that...

Lily, the more you will read the more you will realise that both man and universe are a magnificently complex riddle. In other words books will not bring you the Answer. But they will give you a sense for questioning. The Answer, my friend, is written in the wind. Philosophy is reading ourselves and the universe with our heart and mind. It hasn't much to do with bookish knowledge ;-).

I haven't read Jane Eyre but I thoroughly enjoyed the film.