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Opening someones mind

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Earlier today I try to have a discussion with my father in-law about some of the topics that have been in here on the forum. His response to just them opening was that philosophy is a waste of time. That no one will ever figure it out. If we can't even find out what the beginning of life is that everything else is just hear say.

I attempted to explain to him that the attempt to find out was fruitful enough and I was cut off with "I don't buy it. If you can't prove the beginning than what is the point.

He said that no matter what elements you use to explain the constructs of life some thing is always before that. If you break everything down to its base components something had to have put those there. Where does it start.

His explanation led to some bearded magic man. Just wondering what everyone else thought. How do you talk to someone so closed?, and what do you think the beginning is?

@savagemonk,

For the life of me I can't figure out why your father-in-law thinks David Blain has anything to do with the begginning.

@GoshisDead,

GoshisDead wrote:

For the life of me I can't figure out why your father-in-law thinks David Blain has anything to do with the begginning.

I think he was referring to the god character that seems to be in everyone's head. Might as well be David Blane. On a side note someone needs to tell David to tie his shoes before he does the levitation trick. lol

@savagemonk,

In general people do not like to consider alternative points of view that might weaken a conviction of a certain belief. Even less frequently do people like to outright admit they are wrong.

This may be particularly true of religious beliefs, as people invest so much into their faith of a particular religion. This, admittedly, is more true of those who believe in a specific faith rather than just "a first cause".

In terms of opening one's mind, it is not an easy thing to do and when it is something as personal as a deistic-faith, it is something he or she more often has to do for him/herself.

@savagemonk,

It's senseless to argue, "Since I cannot reason the beginning of time, every other achievement, realization, and mode of understanding is pointless". What's before and after isn't necessarily relevant, and I'm not quite sure why he's so obsessed with the time construct.

Clearly, he just doesn't have a passion for critical thinking. One must have a passion for understanding if one's mind is to be truly open. You cannot make someone have passion; all you can do is plant seeds of enlightenment and hope they decide to cultivate. Probe your father-in-law subtly, never force-feeding new thought processes or concepts -- just bring them up in normal speak, and let him make the connections. If he really has no interest, then he most likely won't pursue any of the matters further, and there's nothing else you can do. If he does have interest and decides to pursue the matters further, great, you've helped to enlighten someone.

Personally, one of the most exciting things in my life is probing others to consider. If I hear, "Wow, I've never thought of ... in such a way, thanks!", I feel absolutely amazing. There's nothing more fulfilling to me than to advocate critical thought and see another reap the benefits of further understanding. But, as I noted, I make a conscious effort not to force-feed, for that will drive the individual further away. Remember not to ridicule him for not critically thinking: don't place yourself on a pedestal. Speak to him as an equal, simply sharing new, different thoughts, and you will see better results.

@savagemonk,

savagemonk;52213 wrote:

He said that no matter what elements you use to explain the constructs of life some thing is always before that. If you break everything down to its base components something had to have put those there. Where does it start.

His explanation led to some bearded magic man. Just wondering what everyone else thought. How do you talk to someone so closed?, and what do you think the beginning is?

He's not closed minded -- he's already engaging in philosophy.

@savagemonk,

savagemonk wrote:

Earlier today I try to have a discussion with my father in-law about some of the topics that have been in here on the forum. His response to just them opening was that philosophy is a waste of time. That no one will ever figure it out. If we can't even find out what the beginning of life is that everything else is just hear say.

I attempted to explain to him that the attempt to find out was fruitful enough and I was cut off with "I don't buy it. If you can't prove the beginning than what is the point.

He said that no matter what elements you use to explain the constructs of life some thing is always before that. If you break everything down to its base components something had to have put those there. Where does it start.

His explanation led to some bearded magic man. Just wondering what everyone else thought. How do you talk to someone so closed?, and what do you think the beginning is?

If you look at the ancient philosophers:they would say that man has to question why we're here because that is a very improtant question. Some believe that although we do not know the answer we should still question, although our brains are not developed enough to find the answer,if we keep questioning our origins,(which of course we do),future generations might develop the capacity to answer such an awsome question, that is what some believe. Scientist spend their whole lives trying to unlock the secrets of the universes, the mysteries of life, can you imagine if we found the anwsers? I see what you F.I.L is saying,ie.something/someone had be there before the big bang and so on and so on, but I think that just adds to the greatest mystery man has ever come across. Personally I think he's given up sorry!

@GoshisDead,

if a tree fell on a mime would we ........
Not me mate the tree would be doing us a favour,get that tree an award.

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

If you look at the ancient philosophers:they would say that man has to question why we're here because that is a very improtant question. Some believe that although we do not know the answer we should still question, although our brains are not developed enough to find the answer,if we keep questioning our origins,(which of course we do),future generations might develop the capacity to answer such an awsome question, that is what some believe. Scientist spend their whole lives trying to unlock the secrets of the universes, the mysteries of life, can you imagine if we found the anwers. I see what you F.I.L is saying,ie.something/someone had to be there before the big bang and so on and so on, but I think that just adds to the greatest mystery man has ever come across. Personally I think he's given up sorry!

Ok if he's engaging then I dont know it can be a frustratiing question, which we do not know the answer to,ie.what was there before this that and the other, however it is important to continue to keep asking.

@Caroline,

If your enjoying reading one book why worry what other books the author wrote.

@xris,

You would read other books after you've finished the one you're enjoying in order to keep an open mind.

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

You would read other books after you've finished the one you're enjoying in order to keep an open mind.

I was attempting to say there is only one book on the shelf...

@xris,

Thank you everyone for the replies. I will change my tactics up and begin to take a softer approach to the discussion. I can see how he has given up on the thought of there being an answer. He has repeatedly said that "we will never find out so why worry".

My engagements are probably the root cause of his walls. I tend to be abrupt and passionate in my points. I was never really good at tact in debates. I tend to over power and fluster my opponent to the point that they can not think straight. More of a lawyer tactic than a philosophers, I am working on that.

And I have tried to explain the concept to him that just because we do not know or understand, does not mean that it does not exist. I never said that a creator does not exist. I merely opened the idea that perhaps there is a different explanation for it. I guess this is more of a project for my mind than his.

Thank you all again. I have learned a lot from this question. Very Happy

@savagemonk,

You can no more open someone else's mind than 'close' it. His logic is faulty and his ability for honest critical thought is apparently negligent.
Talk to him about sports! Or Jezus. Play on his turf as he is incapable, at the moment, of finding yours. It maintains the harmony. It isn't like he is 'wrong', just another Perspective. Don't fall for the egoic of trying to make him over in your image.
Respect him where he is.
You might be surprised at what you might be able to learn from him!

@nameless,

Get out your nutcracker, there be acorns to split!

@xris,

xris wrote:

I was attempting to say there is only one book on the shelf...

Yes I know, I was attempting to say there is more than one book on the shelf, but I think I got my wires crossed,I know what you mean now. Sorry:)

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

Yes I know, I was attempting to say there is more than one book on the shelf, but I think I got my wires crossed,I know what you mean now. Sorry:)

No probs caroline...thanks xris..

@savagemonk,

Going back to what savagemonk said,im often abrupt and interrupt poeple which has landed me in hot water many a time,i'm eager to get my point accross and for people to understand what i mean often hoping they take on board what i'm saying,however,I often find this backfires on me,i am learning to sit back and listen fully to what they're saying and am only just beginning to realise that a using a different tactic.ie.suggesting new ideas,planting seeds and making people reach ideas by thinking it themselves. It's not easy for me to do this and I admire people who can take you along and make you realise yourself new concepts etc,in a neutral way instead of bluntly putting your idea on someone and expecting them to take it on board, it's like what you guys said previously,you can't expect people to change their beliefs by force feeding them, you have to gently lead them down the path and let them figure it out for themselves. I do find this approach hard as it's completely alien to me,it is difficult for me to do this but I guess I should embrace the challenge and if I could master it the results would be very self-satisfying. I think what is great about a forum is that you do have the time and space to sit and think and not necessarily jump right in with your views where in a physical debate it can get too heated even aggressive sometimes which defeats the purpose.

@Caroline,

Your not alone sister..

@xris,

xris wrote:

Your not alone sister..

Thank you, that makes me feel better.:bigsmile:

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