Has this forum changed your mind?

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Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 03:48 pm
I was just wondering, has anyone changed their philosophical position on anything as a result of participating in this forum?
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 04:14 pm
@ACWaller,
Speaking for myself I can only say it made my judgment more mature and less extreme, less based on stubbornness and passion, more based on genuine thinking and reason. Reasoning becoming less of a tool and more of an aim, a moral quality. I'm not there yet, and I may never be, but the Forum changed me at least a bit for the better. Hey, why would I say this if I didn't mean it? :bigsmile:
 
Pangloss
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 05:23 pm
@ACWaller,
My "philosophical position" has never really been set in stone, so every new thing that I learn/experience tends to have its own effect on this, including this forum. The more opinions and ideas I encounter, the more things I realize need to be considered when trying to arrive at a "position", so this forum has helped to fortify my philosophical position that I should generally not have "positions". Smile

This forum has also reinforced my realization that, when it comes to philosophy (and all things), I still have a lot left to learn...that is why I came, that is why I stay.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 05:49 pm
@Pangloss,
I wanted to be a biochemist before I joined the forums. Now I seem to be less interested in that route and have felt attracted to learning about human behaviour, metaphysics, the universe, the mind, and the quantum world.
 
Justin
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 06:14 pm
@ACWaller,
Interesting question brought up AC. This forum has not really changed my mind per se but has opened it a bit and brought about new experiences as well as the opportunity to read such interesting posts and chat with such interesting folks. This forum has provided an opportunity for my mind to grow and in growth there is change... constant change.
 
schloopfeng
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 06:17 pm
@ACWaller,
Hello There,
Yes indeed, it's helped me to tidy up a little in there, by providing links between views that have until now been relatively just stacked up for future reference; i can now try to gain some order & maybe even think of something i can use it for :shocked:, otherwise whats the point?

So far all I have come up with for a "use" is more flippin cleaning, as so often described "the mind is like a sponge" soaking up information then surely at some point you must need to wring it out to go for a second wipe of the "puddle" of life, always a tough prospect for me, it requires "completion" of "stuff" & "completion" of anything is something I seem to be dreadful at, I think I'm kind of mentally long sighted, I carry this irrational view that completion is death, once "it's" finished "it's" dead.

Just a small example, for years I opposed fox hunting in england (loved foxes from an early age & had many fox encounters when living rough), then they did place a ban on fox hunting, victory indeed, then the realisation that something you felt such passion for is over feels strangely melancholic as something that was part of your identity is now redundant.

So ... back to "puddle of life" mopping, when you have a "world" in your mind & it's a mess I suppose you can only "try" to tidy up a little bit, surely it's basic ergonomics, if it's filed better then surely it's easier to work with, if you imagine your life to be a beam of light travelling through time, propelled by your ancestors lives with everything that they laid down in social structures to ensure the survival of your "bloodline", each one of those beams either side has another unique perspective of where we are wanting to travel to as we try to construct our future and our childrens future. As more & more "beams" get closer together then the strength of that part of the light intensifies. The grouping of minds is more powerful than the grouping of physical bodies & our communications advances have transformed an age of panic into an age of reasoning and action.

Question then is how far do you go? ...... How much "tidying up" can you bear?

Then "it" hits you ......it's midnight and you have to get the kids up for school in the morning & all you can do is stop "whitterin on" in that philosophy forum & get to bed...........but you know you'll be back for more ..........:shocked:TTFN
 
William
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 07:22 pm
@schloopfeng,
I didn't come here to change, but to share. It's a bit late for me to change, but a little honing of the edges is always welcome. This is not a subject for me for which I am trying to get graded on. It very serious to me considering the manner in which I received "my education". It didn't come out of a book, so to speak or patterned after what some else thought. I just arrived at it and it took 60 years to do so. I couldn't provide you with a link of a like mind, like mine, if my life depended on it. Those rare ones I have used I had to go looking for after he fact. Of which I did a welcome.....Whew! Ha.

I am amazed at the intensity from those so young who gather here. When I was the age of most of you, I had no idea of what philosophy was and as a matter of a fact not sure if I have a grip on it yet. What I do enjoy here is the decorum and courtesy of it members. Many of which I have no clue as to what they are talking about, but I effort to try and that's what enables me to communicate with more and more individuals.

I understand hubris and realize the tremendous wall it has to protect it from the wise, Ha. I was immortally young once, too. I only hope that one day something I have shared will come in handy. That's all I can hope for.
So I don't think I have changed, but have thoroughly enjoyed my visit and look forward to the exchanges the will come.

Justin, you have labored well and it shows. Keep up the good work. As for the rest of you, thanks for putting up with my "stuff". Ha.Smile
William
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 08:04 pm
@ACWaller,
The one thing that this forum has changed my mind on is that forums can potentially maintain an integrity that allows threads to not devolve into flame wars. Very rarely do insults fly here, which is rare in the world of Internet forums.

As to philosophical issues I wouldn't say that the forum has change my mind on anything, but it forces me to see things from other perspectives I may not have considered. Sure, some of these consideration may only reinforce my own thoughts, but usually they allow me to expand my own thoughts to see connections I may have missed. Philosophy is about finding connections between ideas and others often offer the connecting points.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 09:19 pm
@ACWaller,
ACWaller wrote:
I was just wondering, has anyone changed their philosophical position on anything as a result of participating in this forum?

Generally, I have learned in the process of trying to debate in that it brings all that I have learned into the light, where I can revisit it..
The biggest light bulb moment for me philosophically came about while trying to communicate, and my wife was a big part of it...

Bear with me if you have heard this story, but I was trying to conceive of our social structures, how we relate, and what works about relationships when they work, and why not when not... And I was thinking of it in just that way, structures, parties, organizations; and I was having a heated back and forth with some democrat, and the computer then was in the living room; and my wife asked if I was having some form of relationship with that person... And the light bulb went on...No! and Yes... We all have relationships, and we all have relationships on many levels with many people; and form was exactly the word I was looking for... The form determines our outlook, and our behavior, even our appearance as in -uniform, and provides a certain form-ula for successful, or correct interaction... And form is exactly the correct word, because as we conceive of it, we conceive of ourselves... It would sound strange indeed to say I am a person who accepts Christianity...No..I say: I AM a Christian... The form becomes me, dictates my behavior, and my perspective, and even how I will relate to others inside, or outside of the form..

.And yet, all forms are exactly that, too...We understand all forms, as ideas in relationship to other forms and ideas...Each form is related by meaning which is value according to its relation to our lives... It is good and it is desirable if it feeds our lives...So, we relate through our forms, even when they are not formally forms of relationship...Language is a form, and we relate through it, by means of it...But color is a form too, and we relate through them as well, finding meaning in colors as sign having universal significance...

If a person is an idealist, it means that they put the form before the relationship... As in our society today, ideas/forms, which should be the means by which we think, can also become an excuse for not thinking, or a substitute for thought...And as is shown by Jefferson's language in the Declaration of Independence; Some times forms fail us, and though we bear much evil while we can from failed forms, we must in time keep the relationships we have with humanity when forms threaten us with extinction...What human beings are we cannot change; so we change our forms: Our forms of dwelling, our forms of economy, our forms of government- all forms of relationship... Let me suggest that no one ever changes a mind... When we are able to change people it is though an emotional change, and that can only happen through the relationship... Attacking people, as I sometimes do, does no good... Making the connection, reminding them that we all have a common cause we want support for, forming a new relationship instead of an old and failed one, that also means, an acceptance of new ideas, and new guiding principals...Humanity has always made progress through changes of relationships, mental, and social... We must think formally... We must examine our forms, and see them objectively, and not as a prisoner sees his prison... Forms belong to us...WE do not belong to our forms... Thanks.

And I have some advice...If you want to be happy; think formally; that is, with awareness of the forms of knowledge; but relate informally...No matter what your form whether it be law, religion, society, or marriage...Minimize the form, and maximize the relationship... Good relationships do not need much structure...

And something else: Just as we use two verbs, to have and to be to conjugate all the other verbs; these two essentials of life, forms and relationships cover the whole of human interaction and experience... I struggle with my relationships...Many do...But to understand relationships I must understand forms, and to understand forms I must see them in terms of the relationship... Forms are more static, but they do change, and all are different... But if you see forms as the common, and so static part of all relationships, you can understand the form, and if willing, measure them one against the other...And if you see relationships as common to all forms you measure relationships by way of forms....Considered apart they are variables, but it is possible to limit the variables and see each in terms of the other...Master forms and you are prepared for change, and to change life..As was said to Abram: Go forth.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 09:32 pm
@ACWaller,
I have not necessarily changed my views, but that is not what's important here.

What is important is that I have a greater understanding of the diversity of views out there. Moreover I've gained practice in finding common denominators with people with whom I disagree.

I'm not searching for answers that I think I'll find in philosophy. It's life that gives answers -- and new questions, for that matter. But the nice thing about philosophy is it helps us organize those answers and articulate those questions.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 10:03 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
I wanted to be a biochemist before I joined the forums. Now I seem to be less interested in that route and have felt attracted to learning about human behaviour, metaphysics, the universe, the mind, and the quantum world.

I'm with you for once: Pleasure first, pleasure second, pleasure third, pleasure fourth... Who needs a job??? Until I run out of blood or band aids I'll always have something to eat....

You're not going to tell your mother are you??? I don't want credit for putting you on the road to ruin; so pay me cash...
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 10:09 pm
@Fido,
My mom and dad know nothing about me anymore.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 10:13 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
I have not necessarily changed my views, but that is not what's important here.

What is important is that I have a greater understanding of the diversity of views out there. Moreover I've gained practice in finding common denominators with people with whom I disagree.

I'm not searching for answers that I think I'll find in philosophy. It's life that gives answers -- and new questions, for that matter. But the nice thing about philosophy is it helps us organize those answers and articulate those questions.

If you do not want to change your mind, or change your views, or even change your shorts; don't form relationships... No one ever forms a relatonship without being changed in some way...Everyone sacrifices for their relationships, usually a bit of themselves...Everyone has to accept something they would rather not to have a relationship...It may not be you coming out that went in, but usually we are more human through the process...There is no mover that is unmoved... To get change we have to give change...
 
Aedes
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 10:14 pm
@ACWaller,
My undergraduate degree is in biochemistry, Holiday, and I ended up on here as well. It's not too late!

Fido;43696 wrote:
If you do not want to change your mind, or change your views, or even change your shorts; don't form relationships...
I didn't come here looking for relationship advice either.

I am not here looking to change my mind, but that doesn't mean that I'm closed to the possibility. My mind gets changed usually when I am NOT expecting or seeking change.

As for this site, I came here to learn and to discuss. It works for me. I'm happy with how I feel about the world. I'm not on a quest that life won't answer for me.

I've got real relationships, by the way. Not that I don't love and adore you and everyone else here, but you know when my 9 month old son said the word "monkey" the other day when he saw his stuffed monkey, THAT changed me -- just like everything new he does.
 
manored
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 10:30 pm
@William,
William wrote:
I didn't come here to change, but to share. It's a bit late for me to change, but a little honing of the edges is always welcome

Dont give up, its never late to change Smile What if you live other 60 years? You will have stoped changing in the half of your life, how boring! Smile

I used to hang about the forum of an RTS project called Spring, but then my philosophic side started to spring up with greater violence I found the that the community there wasnt very interested in philosophy, prefering instead to wage flamewars about events happening in the world and what way the project should go, flamewars, ironically, created mainly exactly by the low flexibility of ideas in the community.

Then I started searching for a philosophy forum to dwell on. First one I found had pesky regulations about character-perfect grammar that I could never withstand to write withing, second one was this one and here I have been since then Smile

Main reason I went out searching for a forum is because I was feeling somewhat alone in the world, carring ideas nobody I knew seemed to share (Except for a friend on mine, but one people close to you dont tell much about what the world thinks), thought I knew that, as I had reached most of those ideas throught logical reasoning, there had to be other people out there with similar ideas and I just had to search in the right place... and it struck to me that people like me would gather in a philosopy forum on the internets Smile

Now I have already stayed long enough to prove myself im not a lone genius nor insane, but I enjoy discussing and exchanging ideas about everthing (well, almost everthing) with people who have similar ideas and are overall receptive to new ones... and such discussions and exchanges also sharpen my ability of understanding and making myself understood.

For some reason this idea of catch phrase, if thats how you call it, for the forum popped into my mind, so I will share it: "Come for yourself, stay for the others"
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 10:40 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
My mom and dad know nothing about me anymore.

I don't mean to kid with you about such a subject; but rather, I would suggest that the most desirable situation in life is to maintain all existing relatonships while building others...Some times you can out grow people, like juvenile delinquent buddies... But, hopefully you can remember your childhood with fondness, and have good memories for your parents as people who cared and dared much for you...Even a formal relationship with parents is better than none, and that is because if you do not love them now, and you are being difficult for them to love, still there is hope for love while the form is there... I was a lousy kid and a lousy parent, and I wouldn't wish me on either end of that relationship...But I love both my parents and my children, and so often love is not enough, that you have to fill the love up with actions, and the right sort, and at the right time... Whether it works or not, you have to try...

I know it may seem strange, but if you can be a decent child, then you can be a decent lover, and a decent parent... The worst parent and child and lover is not there...Sooner or later in your life you will reach askicken time, when nothing is going good, the sky is gray and sugar has turned to ****...Then if you had three legs your azz would stay kicked -over all the stupid stuff you've done... Then, if that moment finds you alone, if you really are alone, then the one thought that might save you is this: That you could not do any more than what you did... So that, if your relationships do not work, you won't have to look back, and say I coulda...We need to keep focused on the future, and to do that, we must spare some thought to avoiding guilt, or self reproach, which are emotional death... Dead people live in the past..Live people live in the future. Stay out of the past....Take care of the people in your life while they live.. The good feelings you have for them that you do not share will hurt you later...Don't hurt yourself...Take care of your self...Take care of your relationships..

Aedes wrote:
My undergraduate degree is in biochemistry, Holiday, and I ended up on here as well. It's not too late!

I didn't come here looking for relationship advice either.

I am not here looking to change my mind, but that doesn't mean that I'm closed to the possibility. My mind gets changed usually when I am NOT expecting or seeking change.

As for this site, I came here to learn and to discuss. It works for me. I'm happy with how I feel about the world. I'm not on a quest that life won't answer for me.

I've got real relationships, by the way. Not that I don't love and adore you and everyone else here, but you know when my 9 month old son said the word "monkey" the other day when he saw his stuffed monkey, THAT changed me -- just like everything new he does.

Don't take any advice you don't pay for, and you can afford me...
 
Aedes
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 11:01 pm
@Aedes,
Fido;43703 wrote:
Don't take any advice you don't pay for, and you can afford me...
The check is in the mail. :shifty:
 
manored
 
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 11:21 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
My mom and dad know nothing about me anymore.
Good for you: the greater one is on the inside less he lets out to the outside world in his everday life, being his greatness only noticiable then he focus the said greatness on something. Assuming that their lack of knowledge about you is not due to lack of communication, that is Smile

Fido wrote:
Dead people live in the past..Live people live in the future. Stay out of the past....Take care of the people in your life while they live.. The good feelings you have for them that you do not share will hurt you later...Don't hurt yourself...Take care of your self...Take care of your relationships..
personally I dont believe people should approach their relatives just because their relatives will die one day, mostly because I do not believe that those who die vanish forevermore and "pos-live" winhout these feelings, but rather continue to exist in another forms. And because I believe in immortal life, one is fate-bound to eventually re-meet everone, including his dear relatives... Thought it seens most people dont find as easy to see things this way as I do.

Aedes wrote:
I've got real relationships, by the way. Not that I don't love and adore you and everyone else here, but you know when my 9 month old son said the word "monkey" the other day when he saw his stuffed monkey, THAT changed me -- just like everything new he does.
Thats quite early for a baby to be talking actually words, usually children take like 5 years to become understandeable Smile Perhaps you got a genius son, thought its probally to early to tell. You could write on things whose name he learns their name, like writing "monkey" on the monkey, so that maybe he will learn to write while learning to speak. It will also be funny to attempt to convince your neighboards to let you write on then Smile
 
MuseEvolution
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 09:37 am
@ACWaller,
When I started Google searching for a forum dealing with philosophy or enlightenment I did so knowing there are many out there who are much more educated and experienced in such topics than I. I hoped to learn from them (without having to pay a college tuition). Essentially, I was seeking to expand my understanding of these things, not really to change my mind about them necessarily.

I don't think the forum has changed my mind about anything yet... but I've only been here a couple weeks now. I can certainly foresee a time in which it may.
 
Icon
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 09:42 am
@ACWaller,
This forum has definitely helped me out in how I rationalize certain things.

It has given me some different perspective and definitely slowed me down a bit when it comes to making judgments.

Through some rather good and rather bad example, I have been able to see what sort of approaches come to well rounded conclusions and what sort come to nothing but arguments


I enjoy this forum and that is why I am as active as I am. Even when I'm not posting, I am usually lerking.
 
 

 
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