Hallucinations vs. reality

@MITech,

well i dont understand everything i get bad hallucinations of demons sexually molesting me terrorably at night when i m trying to sleep sometimes during the day happened for about 4 years. when they attack me i think to myself this cant be right but when im feeling better i almost thank them for terrifying me so i can rest for an eternity its unfair i know but its the only way to give my mind rest its very hard i must be crazy.

@ratta,

Astrotheological,Ratta,

That you suffer from hallucinations yet are cognizant enough to post comments is commendable. I have to say though, I have yet to find a person with an affliction that seldom goes out of their way to underline it in public. That is the skeptic in me though.

@astrotheological,

Killing is abhorrent,acute ramifications would be made.If hallucination makes you do that,the judge would perceived that you might be lying and endeavouring not to be contrite,as extraterrestrial objects is not substantiated that they exist.

If it is hallucination,they would test everything to make sure you are not lying.Is there genuinely hallucination?

@astrotheological,

The law applies to your actions, not to your unverifiable mental state.

Regardless of whether or not it is fair to "punish" the person for his/her crime even if they are insane, it is still the responsibility of government to protect the people. A murderer deserves prison or death, not for the sake of retribution or punishment, but for the protection of others in society.

@Pangloss,

The law applies to both your actions and your mental states as well.

Consider the fact that children are treated differently than adults when they commit the same crime. This is not some arbitrary understanding in the law. It could be argued the children under a certain age do not possess the ability to completely realize the ramifications of their actions. Does a five year old child deserve life in prison for killing a friend in a mock wrestling match because they did not understand how dangerous that action really was?

@VideCorSpoon,

VideCorSpoon wrote:

The law applies to both your actions and your mental states as well.

Consider the fact that children are treated differently than adults when they commit the same crime. This is not some arbitrary understanding in the law. It could be argued the children under a certain age do not possess the ability to completely realize the ramifications of their actions. Does a five year old child deserve life in prison for killing a friend in a mock wrestling match because they did not understand how dangerous that action really was?

You are right.Actions is what we need to emphasize rather than the age and delusions.

@VideCorSpoon,

If a child murders, he is still guilty of murder. The law is applied to his actions. A law was still broken due to his actions, it is only that the mental state is taken into account when deciding the sentence.

@Pangloss,

Isn't the question asking whether or not someone should go to jail if they hurt someone that actually did not exist. Well I think they should still go to jail even if they were forced to hurt someone. Since it was a hallucination what harm would happen to you anyways. Interesting question though that is definitly worth debate.

Now ofcourse the problem is that the person obviously didn't know that it was a hallucination though right. But what difference would it make. That person should get help. Be put on some sort of anti-psychotic and if that doesn't get rid of the hallucinations then hospitalization is required.

@MITech,

Ennui,
No. Actions cannot be emphasized because we need to account for age and delusions.

Pangloss,
I don't believe that I denied that if a child murders, the act is still considered murder. My response was to the generality of murderers in particular and what they deserve which you referenced in post #24. But I agree with you, the act is still murder, regardless if it is a child or not. Does that child "deserve prison or death" (pangloss, #24), I don't think so.

MITech,
Who's to say that what we experience now at this moment is a hallucination. A hallucination is only a different view point of reality (arguably).

@MITech,

MITech wrote:

Now of course the problem is that the person obviously didn't know that it was a hallucination though right. But what difference would it make. That person should get help. Be put on some sort of anti-psychotic and if that doesn't get rid of the hallucinations then hospitalization is required.

I coincide.Hallucinations are indeed cannot be a vindication for murder,etc.

@VideCorSpoon,

MITech,
Who's to say that what we experience now at this moment is a hallucination. A hallucination is only a different view point of reality.

True, for all we know we all could be hallucinating and we wouldn't even realize it.

@astrotheological,

astrotheological;25346 wrote:

Hallucination: An alien is talking to you all the time trying to convince you to kill someone. Eventually you kill someone and the alien puts the dead body in his ship. (The whole thing is just a hallucination but the person hallucinating might not realize it)

vs.

Reality: You kill someone.

What should happen: Obviously if you killed someone in reality you would deserve to go to jail, but if you killed someone and it was a hallucination, would you deserve to go to jail? What should happen to this person?

If you kill someone and then the alien puts the dead body in his ship, where's the evidence? Laughing

@astrotheological,

astrotheological;25346 wrote:

Hallucination: An alien is talking to you all the time trying to convince you to kill someone. Eventually you kill someone and the alien puts the dead body in his ship. (The whole thing is just a hallucination but the person hallucinating might not realize it)

vs.

Reality: You kill someone.

What should happen: Obviously if you killed someone in reality you would deserve to go to jail, but if you killed someone and it was a hallucination, would you deserve to go to jail? What should happen to this person?

As an aside, it is not obvious that if you killed someone in reality you would deserve to go to jail, as it depends upon the circumstances whether or not one has committed a crime. For example, killing someone in self-defense when it was not reasonably possible to avoid killing the person without being killed oneself, is typically not a crime.

But to your main question: How is anyone going to know if someone had a hallucination in which the person killed someone, but did not in fact really kill anyone? In order for society to do something to the person for it, it must be that there is something that is recognizable by society. If I am quietly at home having delusions of killing people, but do not show any real sign of this, society will do nothing to me, and ought to do nothing to me, because in order for it to be right for society to do something to me, they must be able to notice something about me that is relevant to society.

@astrotheological,

astrotheological;25346 wrote:

Hallucination: An alien is talking to you all the time trying to convince you to kill someone. Eventually you kill someone and the alien puts the dead body in his ship. (The whole thing is just a hallucination but the person hallucinating might not realize it)

vs.

Reality: You kill someone.

What should happen: Obviously if you killed someone in reality you would deserve to go to jail, but if you killed someone and it was a hallucination, would you deserve to go to jail? What should happen to this person?

What should happen to a person if they hallucinated killing someone? Well, perhaps they should be put in a psyche hospital. It is one thing imagining killing someone, but it is another thing hallucinating that you in fact killed someone when you did not. Usually hallucinating in and of itself is a sign that the person needs help, I think.

@Zetherin,

If you believe you have killed someone you can believe you are going to jail.
Hallucinated kill or a hallucinated jail, real kill or real jail.
If you believe in both hallucianation abnd reality you will have killed and will go to jail in reality and in hallucination.
Real jail, hallucinated jail.
If you do not believe in both you will for one of these realities still go to jail.
You can believe you are not in jail you still will be or wont be.
You can believe you are in jail and you still will be, even if your not.
You can believe you are not in jail but always will be.
You can believe you are in jail and will akways be.
So not everything you believe in or halluciante does count.
But everything in reality you do does count.

@sometime sun,

When a person is having a hallucination, are they having a real hallucination or an imaginary hallucination?

:flowers:

@astrotheological,

astrotheological;25346 wrote:

Hallucination: An alien is talking to you all the time trying to convince you to kill someone. Eventually you kill someone and the alien puts the dead body in his ship. (The whole thing is just a hallucination but the person hallucinating might not realize it)

vs.

Reality: You kill someone.

What should happen: Obviously if you killed someone in reality you would deserve to go to jail, but if you killed someone and it was a hallucination, would you deserve to go to jail? What should happen to this person?

The person can claim insanity when doing the crime, thereby having his sentence reduced. Given it can be proved.

@longknowledge,

longknowledge;138879 wrote:

When a person is having a hallucination, are they having a real hallucination or an imaginary hallucination?

:flowers:

A real hallucination, of course. If it were an imaginary hallucination, they wouldn't be hallucinating at all. When a person is eating, are they having real food or imaginary food? If they are eating, of course they're having real food! If the food were imaginary, they wouldn't be eating at all.

@Zetherin,

Zetherin;138956 wrote:

A real hallucination, of course. If it were an imaginary hallucination, they wouldn't be hallucinating at all. When a person is eating, are they having real food or imaginary food? If they are eating, of course they're having real food! If the food were imaginary, they wouldn't be eating at all.

So why the conflict between hallucination and reality? A hallucination is the reality being experienced at that time by the person having the hallucination.

:flowers:

@astrotheological,

astrotheological;25346 wrote:

Hallucination: An alien is talking to you all the time trying to convince you to kill someone. Eventually you kill someone and the alien puts the dead body in his ship. (The whole thing is just a hallucination but the person hallucinating might not realize it)

vs.

Reality: You kill someone.

What should happen: Obviously if you killed someone in reality you would deserve to go to jail, but if you killed someone and it was a hallucination, would you deserve to go to jail? What should happen to this person?

I think the scenario of 'you kill someone' could be a dream or lucid dream rather than a hallucination. I am not very sure on this.

wiki wrote:

A hallucination, in the broadest sense, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus.
In a stricter sense, hallucinations are defined as perceptions in a conscious and awake state in the absence of external stimuli which have qualities of real perception, in that they are vivid, substantial, and located in external objective space.

There is a difference between (1) hallucinating the killing of someone and (2) killing someone while hallucinating voices and objects.
I know it is common for (2) to occur, but not sure whether (1) is possible.
Would like to know of any documented evidence of this.

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Hallucinations vs. reality

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