Thank you. I always knew I was smart, but it's nice that someone else ...

Oh. You weren't talking about me? :mad:

Well, I'll tell you anyway. I got a master's degree in mechanical engineering in 1989. I hold 3 patents, and have written several papers, including a presentation to the ASME International Congress.

What does that have to do with philosophy? Very little. The quality of my technical education was excellent (we don't want bridges collapsing or cars exploding, do we?). However, my liberal education was woefully inadequate. The engineering college gave a condescending nod to other disciplines because it had to in order to be labelled a college. But I've often wondered if engineering schools should be listed as vocational. I guess that belongs under the philosophy of education.

I'm an example. I wanted a double major in engineering and history. Huh? Yeah, that's what the college said as well. They refused to allow it. I could get a double major in two engineering disciplines, or I could get a minor in history, but not a double major. So, here almost 20 years later I'm finally going back to school to get that history degree.

But my first degrees left me with little philosophical or historical training. We were indoctrinated in a particular philosophy/history of science with an attitude of "It's not a philosophy. That's the way it is."

Hence, any knowledge I have in this area is all self taught. Scary.

I guess I 'major' in Audio Technology and my 'minor' would be Creative Music*, I have a cat, and wrote a small selection of rock songs with a band about 4 years ago called C.I.T.Z on which I play bass guitar. The music was well accepted locally and we ended up playing some rather prestigious venues (the Astoria, London being my fave). As part of a rock ensemble I reached regional semi-finals for young musician of the year. (it is very rare to get qualified as a rock quartet but we did a wonderful Beethoven medley- they couldn't resist) But the rockstar dreams were all over by age 18 and now I mostly play drums but I like guitar and piano as well.

Music dominated my education until college when I got interested in the engineering and studio side of things. Where does philosophy fit in? It doesn't I guess, I just like it. 'Hence, any knowledge I have in this area is all self taught.' also.

*In the UK we don't major or minor, we can have combined degrees (mine is bachalor of science- combined Audio Technology and Creative Music) but most people just take the one subject, and college is before university. At college I got a national diploma in Music Technology, was a most fun two years of my life. I just finished the 2nd year of my degree about two weeks ago, on summer holidays now .

I majored in philosophy and minored in pre-med and pre-law. I initially started on a pre medical track when I first attended university, but after a few years, I switched to philosophy in liberal arts. The reason for the switch was a combination of too much bureaucracy in the profession and the sheer amount of time it would take to get to a point where I could earn enough money justify the time spent in school. It took me around 5 ? years to complete the major and minors, but I think they were worth it. The minors enable me to have the option later of applying to medical school and law school, of the latter which I am currently pursuing a J.D.Ph.D. (Juris doctorate, philos. Doctorate). A philosophy degree by itself is worthless, but applied towards a professional school, it is worth gold. If you want to pursue a liberal professional degree, philosophy (and economics, history, etc.) degrees are worth gold.


I don't know if this would help you out, but I would like to put down all the relevant information I learned in undergraduate that was any importance to my future interests.


PICKING YOUR DEGREE AND THE THREE REQUISITES OF THE UNDERGRADUATE

First off, you need to pick a degree you know you can excel in. You can major in art and apply to medical school if you want, as long as you have the prerequisites to apply. You do this because your GPA is of VITAL IMPORTANCE depending on whether or not you want to go further academically with that degree. Whatever you do, you have to keep in mind the next few things; 1) GPA 2) Program Examinations 3) Recommendation.

GPA
For your GPA, if you leave with a 3.0 on a 4.0 scale, you are in the 70th percentile of people applying to graduate and doctoral programs. This means that you have half a chance of getting into a school of your qualification on the first try, and the odds increase the more you apply. Also, a track record is important, you want to show that your grades show a steady increase as you go through school.

EXAMINATIONS

For program examination, keep in mind that at the end of your run, you are expected if you wish to enter a professional school to take an entrance exam, like the LSAT (Law) or the MCAT (medicine).

RECOMMENDATIONS

For recommendations, most schools want three at the maximum. They have to be from professors who taught you, otherwise they are not taken seriously in application.

If you can keep these three things in high standing, you can go anywhere you want. If you fail in one area, you must compensate by building up the other two. Its as simple as that? or is it?

GETTING A PHILOSOPHY DEGREE

What can I say about a doing a degree in philosophy? Philosophy is for the most part like getting a history degree. It is really never about your own opinions, but the intake of what others have said, which is I guess obvious. You excel in a philosophy degree by getting at least a B average and establishing a relationship with your instructors.

LEVELS OF CLASSES

Depending on your initiative to retain that knowledge, you can take (within the American school system) classes leveling in difficulty. Most colleges do regular classes and honors classes. This is pretty standard for most schools. My school does regular classes (1000-3000 level courses like continental philosophy, religion, etc.), honors classes (H 1000+2000 level courses like existentialism), and Masters level courses (4000+ level courses like metaphysics) As an undergraduate, you can take masters level courses and actually apply them to your masters degree if you wish while also counting towards your undergraduate degree, making a 2 year masters degree track into a one year stint. Another interesting fact is that if you wish to apply for a Ph.D., you need not necessarily go through a master's degree first, you can directly apply if you are notable.

I should point out that Philosophy is within the liberal arts college at most universities, and you will have as much help from advisors (who try to pick these classes out for you) as you would from some stranger on the street.

TYPES OF CLASSES

In the Philosophy degree, you have three types of classes; core, major, and elective.

The core classes are those which the university wants you to take. These are basic, sometimes nonsense classes. But this is important to note, in that these initial first year courses establish your GPA. Take easy courses that you know you can do well in. These are introductory classes to all aspects and curricula. However, the required courses sometimes intersect with elective courses, as you have to take a number of sciences classes and the like.

The major classes are classes you are required to take in order to graduate in your major. In these classes, you have a variety of courses in philosophy ranging in difficulty, culminating in a senior seminar.

The elective classes are those which can be anything you want, but you can only do so many that count towards your degree.

CREDIT HOURS

My philosophy degree is composed of 127 credit hours. Within those 127 credit hours, I have elective, core, and major courses that need to be fulfilled in order qualify for graduation. I have 163 credit hours, as I have two minors that go beyond the required credits. The credits that go beyond the 127 credits are worthless unless you fulfill the minor requirements, which is basically a mini degree. Minors are extremely dangerous as you can screw up your GPA if you are not careful.

I hope any of that helped. There is a lot more to say, but I may be saying too much. If you would like to talk about hashing out a plan for your college career or making a decisive cut for a profession, I'd be happy to talk about it. God knows I've had an earful of it, but it in the end paid off.

I am nobody special, I have no degrees. I guess I don;t respond well to authority. I am an anarchist you see. The fact that I am not in jail only proves that my personal ethics are not as far off from the Dutch way of doing things as one might suspect (or at least I have never been in the way of the authorities). I also do not have a religion. I think that I do believe in something though, I just do not a religion that preaces what I believe. I have wandered the Earth looking for something that I lack and everybody seems to have, but I have not found it. I guess I am homeless as well in that sense. I have studied many things, both in and out of school, but I have no titles.

Perhaps what characterises me most is my skepcis.

Lots of degrees and lots of time.

No degree in philosophy, though, just some coursework when I was an undergraduate.

I have more WFs than you can shake a stick at. But I've managed to drag my eyes across enough books covering enough topics to engage in a serious discussion about most philosophical issues.

I rarely perform well at school. Teachers begin to hastily over-generalize and I begin to stare out the window. Luckily, I can swing a test with the best of them, so as long as I show up, I pass the course.

Eventually I'll graduate, history major, teach your children in a high school somewhere. Hopefully I will continue to go to school while teaching, get a masters. Who knows, maybe end up teaching your kids when they hit college. Talk about scary, huh? Get all of my insanity up in front of a room full of impressionable young adults.

Well I've got a map full of degrees and certifications but nothing really special. Mostly the basic stuff plus some extras (Cisco etc). Next few years will earn me some more certificates and degrees.

I used to care a lot about my degrees and certifications but really let go of that, I now only get them because they are an advantage at job interviews. I care more about the things I learn at school than the piece of paper proving I was good enough to get it. Guess this makes me the non-cheating, always making his work kinda guy.

Most of my interests (mathematics, English literature, science, Linux and philosophy) have all just popped up in the last 2 years and are all (at the moment) at hobby levels, with really no direction yet. I might end up building a Linux machine that philosophizes about English literature by the use of science and mathematics or something idiotic in that direction.

For those that are still interested; My next stop will be a bachelor in "Information Security Management", and after that I might just get my masters for the sake of it. Probably lands me with a job at a bank, government or military.

Where do you work Vasska?

I major in Information Systems Security and specifically focusing on Vulnerability Research.

Got multiple jobs at the moment;

I was a trainee for about 6 months at PCM (Personal Computer Magazine), and got to be a freelancer for them after that. However things fade and I really dislike the new regulations by the new owner. I only get the articles that no-one wants or has time for. Guess I'll quit when my contract ends at the end of the year.

My other, more fun, employment is as a (Junior) System Administrator at a local lawyers office (16 people employed, nothing much).

I'm now finishing my current education with a traineeship. I was up for a trainee ship at a hosting company, but they had troubles finding System Administrators and did not have room for me anymore (the called me 3 weeks before I was to start.) So my school put me in a trainee position in special education; people with autism, and other rare diseases or dysfunctions that cannot function in regular education. I don't really like it.

(My school and their school work together for bureaucratic and financial reasons for the record, that's why they put me there.)

I am asking because of the cisco certificates. Not many people have them. You'd be one of a small circle. I work at KPN (AS 286). I speak to a lot of people; figured we might have met. I know some people doing the "Information Security Management" as well.

Anyway, good luck on the studies.

My school required CCNA Semesters 1,2,3 and half of 4. I was only two modules away from 4, and after that just went for my CCNA since i had some time left. Guess we have never met, at least I've never talked to anyone at KPN that I know of. I'd wanted to do Wireless Networking too but was limited in time at that moment.

ISM is new at bachelor level (HBO) and starting in September for the first time. Masters (UNI) have been around somewhat longer.

I also studied for CCNA.

Most likely not then. There are some job openings at KPN btw (figured I'd just mention it because I could use some time off...working weekends too now ).


Cool. Do you have a job in it or are you still in school?

I already work to much and am still at school (and will be the next 4 years). Hope they'll find replacement for the weekends for you.

At first I wanted to be heavily into networking and go all the way through the CCIE, which is why I studied for the CCNA. I never took the test but would pass if I did. I switched over to the software development side, specifically in Vulnerability Research and Reverse Engineering. I enjoy it much more and won't be making drastic changes in the future.

I am a student full time / consultant part time.

Well Vasska and Rivelli, it seems you two have a better set up than I concerning the work hours. If I can work a way to make it happen I'd try to get more time in studying. For now I can also use the cash, so..

The CCNA Final Exam is totally different from all the previous exams from the Cisco CCNA semesters. So you'd better watch out if you were ever to take it. It took me 20 minutes to go trough the 27 pages on how the exam would be taken, they real make it hard on you.

Thanks. If I take it, which I won't id make sure to do a review and take a look at the updates. However, for me at least, CCNA seems to be very basic and for the most part, just asks basic router / switch commands along with networking 101 scenarios.