Philosophy can in simplified meaning learn childeren to question things and form
a framework which can be build upon, to know from the very beginning that knowledge is better than bliss ignorance.

Vasska,

I recognise your frustrations unfourtunately. I am from Holland too by the way. pleased to make your acquaintance.


So...I guess that Socrtaes wasn't blissfull then?

De budding,

I think I should swim over so we could give those Cambridge-ians a good punishmunt for their written exams.

p.s. what is a PGCE

Yep, the problem you're referring to was started close to home-at the University of Cambridge... THE WRITTEN EXAM!!!

Out of laziness (they call it practicality), they teach us a few choice facts (the syllabus) and then test us at the end of the year to see if we have remembered. O' how I wish I could attend any of the ancient Greek schools of thought.

Once you get to Uni it should

But I am a little drunk and a little angry right now so I'm probably over reacting. My primary school life was a blessing that taught me a lot, my hand writing was never legible yet I loved to write stories about pigs, the 1 teacher who had the patience to decipher it-apparently, found himself pleasantly surprised by the content. The persistence and dedication of that teacher and the fact that he was the only male teacher at our school, coupled with; my personal philosophical outlook and the outrage you stated are the main reasons I will be starting my PGCE in 1 and a bit years to become a primary school teacher.

I started out with a nice idealistic view of education; I think the thread is about somewhere 'learning to learn' or something. But the long and short of it is, you can't please every one and it's complicated... I think the best bet is to work with students on a personal level, Aedes said a lot of interesting points about the relationship and approach he takes with his med students and I find it all relevant.

I haven't read much about Socrates yet, except for an essay by Anthony Gottlieb, and found Socrates inspiring for he knew how to trigger people's mind and always formulated the questions that were needed. Certainly in philosophy much more important than knowledge for it can be used to gain knowledge.

A PGCE by the way is practically the same as PABO in our country. What school were you at by the way? I'm starting next fall at De Haagse Hogeschool. (Dutch always sounds so stupid in English context)

I study in Utrecht. I bet every school has the above problems though.

p.s. I love the old geezer. He is an idealist Perhaps you should try to read some Plato. You are going going to meet him often in your studies anyway.

Well the written exam was only an improvement of the Latin oral exam (I think), but there is a richer history than you think, and maybe a lot of answers can be found there. There was a BBC Radio 4 series on the history of exams entitled 'Turn Over Your Papers... Now!' I've searched like a madman for it, but to no avail. But I will keep trying, http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008chl2 the link has a little bit of information about each episode, for example multiple choice started out in the US military.

Well, I think 'popularity' has a habit of overshadowing the importance of knowledge and intelligence. A 'popular' student when I was at primary school (age span was 4-11 year old) seemed to be the one with most 'freedom', the one who could play outside when and where she wanted, or who could display independent traits like this. I don't really remember a clothing trend and we all listened to the same music any way. So popularity seemed to be awarded to the rebellious, headstrong and 'free' (from parental wraith), if only they knew the value of true freedom, then they would recognize intelligence and understanding as crucial to freedom rather than values imposed by school, values of conformity, values of 'uncool'.

I have yet to see a child who wants to learn, how does one go about encouraging this? And how does dividing the children into mental abilities hinder the process? I before discussed how I felt that Primary education would struggle if w couldn't teach the students to choose first, therefore granting them the ability to enroll themselves in school, so to speak.

Could you direct me to some related research online? Sound interesting.

Thanks for the post,
Dan.

Vasska, such workings are well known to most of us. It is called the pygmalion effect. It is a necessary evil when one wishes to deal with education in the way we are dealing with it now. I think it is proving ietzsche's point on guilt: that it does not matter what one does, but what one thinks of it and that just this behavior was most likely the desired one. That tells us something of the world I'm afraid. In the world we live in everything has a "use" or else it is not important and often shunned.

Well I am going to be the a very well prepared student teacher me thinks .
I wanted to study my PGCE at the University of Cambridge but kind of gave up on that dream this year, but if my interview consists of a broad discussion of subjects of this nature... how can they resist!

Thanks for the links guys.

psst, Vasska, it's ArjEn.

Imagine failing mathematics simply because you did not show your working out of the equation on paper. The education systems are designed to eliminate free thinkers, employ children from their parents lives or work most generally, for a great many years, fodder out paper jockeys to conglomerates everywhere, all the while churning outsiders of their ways toward the menial labour entensive jobs of the world. Few outcasts continue through the system or slip through but are found within themselves during latter schooling or pocketed amongst new tribes that fringe societal living.

Vasska, education isn't for the masses, at least not at the same time.

For example, by this I mean that a ten year old girl is much more interested in English study than a ten year old boy. The boy wants outside, so let him go outside and play. Now by your logic, he needs to be conscripted to the talons of his future.

There is less than a fifty percent chance the boy will comply, that is plus fifty percent of males at age ten out of the masses group of lets say forty-five percent of boys and roughly eighty percent of girls. It is a rash generalisation of expression, but the school now only has to dumb down its level of education to keep these boys, 'till they either smarten themselves up, ( by this I also mean they come to their senses) or else they can be out sourced into the work force.

This can occur while they remain at school and continue to recieve an education however they accept it. This also applies to girls but usually at a later age, when their intrests lead to other ideals. Great lets teach them to type they took in the english skills at age ten lets throw them into an office now, while they are still at school. This isn't education it is brainwashing.

I can complain, because I failed mathematics for not showing my working out. One hundred percent correct but I failed because they could say I cheated, I did not cheat and they did not see me cheat, so go figure. The following year I gave up a career in mathematics, one hundred percent. School is close to the biggest distraction in the lives of our children. Not an education, school.