Going back to the FI as a spy undercover

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Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2007 03:28 pm
Going back to the FI as a spy undercover
I have always thought how it would be to go back into the FI as an undercover sheep.I would if I could.That would be only to document and gather evidence of current practices and illegal activities still going on in the group.I have often wanted to find certain leaders and members that were known by many ex members to have been extra abusive and even mentally ill.I remember alot of women as well as guys that actually enjoyed beating kids and had no sense of mercy or remorse in doing so.The FI say that they have made mistakes in the past and are sorry and have changed their ways.Well if they are sorry then why is it that the only apologies and comments that have been made are thoes from the top leadership and not the individuals who are guilty and know it.
If they really mean what they say then there should be more effort made by thoes individuals proving it .What do you think?
 
Monger 1
 
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2007 10:16 pm
Ted Patrick, one of the founders of FREECOG, did this back in the 70s.

For the record, current Family practices are pretty well known by some former members and others (thanks in part to unprecedented amounts of information and Family publications available on the web on this site and others), and there is little to no illegal activity going on in your average Family home.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2007 09:23 am
Monger wrote:
... there is little to no illegal activity going on in your average Family home.
Aside from the money laundering and tax-evasion, of course.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2007 04:21 pm
Monger wrote:
... there is little to no illegal activity going on in your average Family home.


And maybe living in a foreign country under false pretenses (e.g., lying to obtain a visa).
 
BlackELk
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 10:11 am
Monger wrote

Quote:
... there is little to no illegal activity going on in your average Family home.


What about child labor laws? Sending kids out to peddle merchandize and beg for donations is economic exploitation when it's done at the expense of their education. Even in developing countries like India, there are child labor laws on the books that prohibit the economic exploitation of children.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 01:53 pm
I think what Monger is talking about is sexual and physical abuse such as we the older of the sga's suffered. These things are taken very seriously within the homes pretty much. also, these days, education, to the required level, is something focused on and taken seriously, so that even if the kids are out on the streets trying to get money for products, as long as they are reaching the required education level, that's something homeschooling allows for--for the parents to set their own schooling schedule. as far as if it's illegal for them to be doing that kind of work, i'm sure they know enuf of the law to wiggle their way out of something like that if it ever went to court. most kids look forward to getting out of the home and that's sort of their only interaction with society and excursion like in many circumstances. kids, especially young ones are certainly not the ones out there every day any more, like i was when i was little. I'm not saying its okay to do that, or defending them, i'm just saying that it doesn't interfere with education laws when parents have permission to homeschool.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 05:03 pm
Cookie wrote:
also, these days, education, to the required level, is something focused on and taken seriously


Do you know what the "required level" is? Is it a grade-level (e.g., 6th grade), or something? How do they measure the level? Do they follow some kind of homeschooling curriculum? Do they allow the older teens to pursue higher levels (e.g., 10, 11, or 12 grades)? How much time, every day, is devoted to their education?
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 05:16 pm
passing what would be a high school education is required and as far as i know it's discouraged to go beyond that unless they leave the family to persue it. as far as how much schooling per day, that's totally up to the individual home, but what i'm saying is that what they're doing is not illegal if they're living up to the standards they are required to abide by set up by the new boards. it's set up now so that certain people are responsible on the boards for education, and if individual homes are not living up to this, they are put on probationary status. look, i'm really not defending them. i had NO edu. in TFI minus a year here and a year there. which i am very upset about, but my little bros and sis' there have it much better and i'm glad that since i can't do what it takes to get them out that they at least get the minimum. it sucks to grow up in TFI but it's not as bad as it was beforoe scholastically. there are a variety of programs they follow such as beka and cvc ... which are approved standards at least to get them off the hook if their kids at the appropriate age can complete the appropriate level. i am less concerned about their education these days as the strange doctrines they have to learn which are the things that mess them up a lot more than a perfect scholastic environment, seriously.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 05:28 pm
Cookie wrote:
look, i'm really not defending them.


Oh. I didn't think you were at all. I am genuinely interested (as I have nephews and nieces still in). Since I left over 14 years ago, I have very little idea what day-to-day life is like these days.

Glad to know that they require better schooling. Is "cvc" a homeschooling curriculum? Does that stand for "Christian" something? It might be nice to start an article on our wiki detailing the history of their educational system (including quotes from David Berg where nothing past 6th grade made sense to him). I would even include a detailed (example) curriculum, if we could get our hands on one.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 05:38 pm
i'll try to work getting some info from my family. they're not in a place right now where they have access to the internet and can answer anything, much less get an email from me, but i expect they'll soon be out of that situation, so i'll ask some questions. might take some time to get any answers, but i think eventually i can

CVC stands for christian vocational college and it's something that's pretty much family originated, worked on to a great degree by Paul Theopholis and his wife (parents of Techi's mate) but has been approved by academics who can approve these things. i don't recall all the details. but i know it does count. and its not so easy as one might think. it does make you work for your education...unless you have someone you know who can make you a certificate (only a few people in each country can do this)because they like you or want a favor from you or for whatever reason i know some of my friends got them eventually without having to do any real work, but most people i know, including my younger sister actually worked for her one or two certificates from them. they cover all subjects i can think of off the top of my head. i think she got hers for childcare... Confused .
 
JASONLANIK
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 06:53 pm
education in the FI
I remember when my mom had a correspondance corse that would send the books to you via mail and you studied from home.The only problem with that was my mom would exclude studies or books on science and some history classes that were part of the corse due to the FI beliefs or for other reasons.Later on in life after leaving and till today I lack alot of knowladge in basic History and Scientific facts.My children knew more about History as well as alot of other interesting information than me at the age of 10.It was kind of a rude awakening when I could not even help them with their homework.Although I have a GED now I still lack alot of the basic common knowladge they teach you in grade school.
Jason
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 07:13 pm
I forgot that we have already started an article here. They posted a note that they renamed it, "Christian Vocational Academy".
 
Peter Frouman
 
Reply Thu 6 Sep, 2007 09:23 pm
Thorwald wrote:
I would even include a detailed (example) curriculum, if we could get our hands on one.

http://media.xfamily.org/docs/fam/homearc98/cvc/
Cookie wrote:

CVC stands for christian vocational college ... has been approved by academics who can approve these things


As far as I know, CVC (or CVA as it's now called) is not accredited anywhere by any legitimate authority.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Fri 7 Sep, 2007 08:08 am
Thorwald wrote:
I forgot that we have already started an article here. They posted a note that they renamed it, "Christian Vocational Academy".
I still have several certificates issued by CVC. When I get a chance I'll scan some of them in.

Realistically, they are pretty much worthless in the west as the aren't an accredited college/academy.

When I took the course, all I had to do was read a bunch of Family-published material and turn in a paper signed my a course supervisor or home shepherds. There was no exam or test of any kind, so they are more like certificates of course completion--which doesn't really mean a whole lot in the real world.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Fri 7 Sep, 2007 02:33 pm
such a sad thing about their education is tho they do cover the elementary subjects these days to cover their butts, they frown on people who want to learn more than the basics. i have a really smart brother in TFI who's about 11 years old and i know he's going to want more and more, he is just that way. and i don't envy the response he's gets from people other than his parents, who kind of encourage him by sneaking in extra books for him. people who should be academics or who would be in the real world are getting training to be childcare workers and outreachers with any spare time...and they don't get to take school brakes either. it really is a ruff life for a kid/teenager
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 11:27 pm
I guess everyone on this forum is totally against the Family (except for a few) because no-one ever writes about the good things. Not all Homes denied people books, education, time out etc. What people forget, is that it is people that make the Home, and if you were in a Home with people who were pushy and too heavy handed then people should have stood up to them. I know I did, and so did my best friend who was in another Home. I had 2 people chucked out of our Home and raked over the coals because of their attitudes. It's the same in the World, now, I don't let anyone walk all over me. Regardless of where people are or who they are with, people need to stand up for themselves.

However, in the same token, with some people who just hold onto the past...sometimes you've just got to give it over, get rid of it. Life is for living and if you keep REliving the past and not getting on with the future, you are missing a whole lot. I was treated exceptionally bad by my first husband (not a Christian, and it was before I joined the Family), but I learned to forgive and I am still in touch with his family and occasionally send my regards to him. If I met him I would be cordial to him. He's not part of my life anymore and I don't see the sense in hanging on to animosities.
 
JASONLANIK
 
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 01:00 pm
to guest
The thought of standing up for yourself as a teen was a death wish.
The fact that you were able to stand up for yourself in the FI indicates that you were an adult. The adults never had it as bad as us who were raised in the FI.
 
Arssle
 
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 08:55 am
Joining the family and being born in it are completely different things. Did you husband not let you go to a normal school for fear of "system influences"? Did he beat you or put you in "silence restriction" (lol) for "being Worldly"? Were you alienated from the rest of the world? Did he sexually abuse you when you were nine or ten? My guess is he did not. Rolling Eyes
 
JASONLANIK
 
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2007 01:53 pm
to guest
It"s so easy for people like you to say this to victims of child abuse making it sound like its our choice to RElive our past. Let me ask you this.
Were you ever so scared of being physically beat that you actually had to take a shit first?
Did you ever have to witness your own little brothers and sisters get physically beat right in front of you and watch them screaming in terror?
Did you ever have to be so humiliated walking around for weeks with a silence restriction sign hung around your neck for all to see?
Were you ever accused of having a demon in you?
Did you ever have any exorsisms done on you as a teen?
As a girl, were you ever forced to have sex with full grown men at the age of 12?
Do you know what it is like to actually have to escape from all of this in the middle of the night and into the streets of a third world country with no money or place to live?
Unless you have been in these types of life altering expieriences then you should understand that it is not by choice that some of us are still haunted by our past and it may take a little more for some to just simply "get on with the future". I think all of us wish it were that easy.
Jason[/quote]
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 12:09 pm
Grrrr
Neurobiological findings show that trauma - physical abuse, sexual abuse and neglect - dramatically affects both the structure and chemistry of the developing brain, thus causing behavioral and learning problems in children and adults who experience trauma.

The article linked below explains the physiological damage that is done to children who are beaten, raped, emotionally & psychologically assaulted, and/or neglected. The long-term damage from abuse is not something people make up in their heads because they're into having a pity party.

http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/1/res/dallam/4.html

Here are some videos on the subject that are available to the public as a matter of health promotion:

http://www.healingresources.info/emotional_trauma_online_video.htm

Given the public awareness campaign that's going on in the US regarding the physiological impact of child abuse, I'm quickly loosing patience with posters who ask, "Why don't you just get over it?" Such a question exactly like asking someone who's had a broken leg why they walk with a limp and can't run in the marathon like everyone else.
 
 

 
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