Channel 4 (UK) documentary "Cult Killer" shown las

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Peter Frouman
 
Reply Mon 28 Aug, 2006 07:12 pm
evanman wrote:
I watched a recording of an interview with a child in Cog/TF. She was asked when the first time she had intercourse in the "Family". She replied that it happened when she was nine years old.

She had answered truthfully and honestly--she got severely disciplined for saying what she did!


I've never seen that interview but I don't find it at all surprising that a Family child who told the truth about being abused would be severely disciplined. As Acheick noted, both adults and children were given specific instructions to lie and warned of the dire consequences that would result if they told the outside world about the sexual "freedoms" practiced in the Family. Publications were distributed in which obvious lies were held up as shining examples of how to answer questions from the authorities. A good example of this is to be found in GN 430 published in June 1990. In it there is the "testimony" of a 17-year-old who in answer to a question by authorities in 1989 says she "never" had sex. Every Family member reading that publication knew it was a lie and that in 1989 the idea that someone born in the Family could reach the age of 17 without ever having sex was preposterous. Only a few years earlier, in 1985 (which the Family claimed, in June 1992, was the year in which it banned and made adult-child sexual contact an excommunicable offense now they falsely claim it was 1986 when in fact the November 1986 Liberty or Stumblingblock? memo they falsely claimed was written in 1985 certainly did not make it an excommunicable offense and did not even ban it but only stated it was "strongly discouraged."), the pedophiles David Berg and Karen Zerby felt it neccesary to make a rule that children under 15 couldn't have full sexual intercourse with each other and adults *after* they began to menstruate or produce semen but they were allowed to engage in other forms of sexual contact both before and after.

The Family not only instructed and trained children to lie about their experiences but also taught them that they were not abused (see GN 430 - "SPECIAL NOTICE TO ALL FAMILY TEENS!—By WS Staff at Maria's Request"). Lest anyone get the mistaken idea that they have repented and are now teaching ther children the truth (that adults who have sexual contact with children have committed criminal acts of child sexual abuse that are harmful to children), their pedophile and child abuser spokesperson Claire Borowik continues to publically justify and advocate pedophillia, saying that it wasn't harmful and that it wasn't abuse. This explains why a reporter can show her a page from a a Family publication with an image of an adult woman performing oral sodomy on a toddler and she can reply with a straight face that it was not sexual abuse and that "He was never taken advantage of. Rather he was allowed to explore his sexuality freely. He was allowed to explore as a young boy what comes naturally, and usually in our society, we do not allow such exploration." (New York Times: Murder and Suicide Reviving Claims of Child Abuse in Cult)

I read an interesting article in the New York Times the other day about pedophile groups on the Internet and how they try to justify and rationalize their behavior. Borowik's and The Family's shameless justification of pedophillia is eerily similar to those used by these vile pedophile groups.

Here are some interesting excerpts from the article:

Quote:

In the pedophiles’ world view, not all sexual abuse is abuse. There is widespread condemnation and hatred of adults who engage in forcible rape of children. But otherwise, acts of molestation are often celebrated as demonstrations of love.

Experts described the pedophiles’ online worldview as reflective of “neutralization,â€
 
Acheick
 
Reply Mon 28 Aug, 2006 09:48 pm
Excellent article, Peter
Clap, clap, clap - great job. What a wealth of information you put out and such a clear format.
 
max 1
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 04:44 am
C4 Documnetary
Claire makes some very good points in her article below.
She did repsond on behalf of the Church and did not hide away as some suggested.
Max


In Response to the Channel 4 documentary: “Cutting Edge: Cult Killer—The Ricky Rodriguez Story,â€
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 06:25 am
Piss off, Claire, you lying sociopath
Quote:
Such crimes are not particular to religious groups—in fact suicide and acts of violence are virtually unheard of in Family communities.


It is known that such crimes ARE particular to adults who are seriously and persistently abused as children. To the extent that a religious group practices the inappropriate sexualization of a child the way that religious group LEADERS David Berg, Karen Zerby, Angela Smith, Sarah Kelley and others did on Rick Rodriguez, we can ascribe Rick's brutal murder of Angela Smith to growing up in TFI.

Secondly, suicide is NOT virtually unheard of in Family communities. Apparently Ms. Borowick has forgotten Ben Farnsworth? Or perhaps he doesn't count--like a dozen others who grew up in TFI--because he was not living in a Family home at the time of his tragic death?
 
max 1
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 08:51 am
If you read the press release as a whole it stands up very well.
This individual Rick was a very distubed young man and he commited murder that is a fact.
 
Acheick
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 09:03 am
max wrote:
If you read the press release as a whole it stands up very well.
This individual Rick was a very distubed young man and he commited murder that is a fact.


And why was he disturbed, Max? The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. If you ever chose to open the windows of your mind and read a little bit more than F. PR propaganda, you will learn that this is behavior consistent with childhood victims of incest and sexual abuse. Ricky was disturbed because of what happened to him and to his friends around him.
 
max 1
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 09:11 am
Sensible and constructive comments only please
 
Acheick
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 09:16 am
Re: C4 Documnetary
Quote:
As a spokesperson for The Family International (formerly known as the Children of God), I wish to state for the record that I find your coverage of my church
.

"Church?" Now this is interesting. Since when did they ever, ever call themselves a church. According to F. dogma, churches are places where retarded Christians go and listen to noodle for a backbone preachers. Another lie.

Quote:
The reiterative usage of the label “cultâ€
 
Acheick
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 09:17 am
max wrote:
Sensible and constructive comments only please


Max, you're repeating yourself. Rolling Eyes
 
max 1
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 09:24 am
Take your points directly to Claire if that is not to much trouble for you.
I am suprised that you had not read or heard of this press release and acted already.
For goodness sake get a job to occupy your mind and time.
Good luck.
Best regards
Max
 
Acheick
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 09:30 am
max wrote:
Take your points directly to Claire if that is not to much trouble for you.
I am suprised that you had not read or heard of this press release and acted already.
For goodness sake get a job to occupy your mind and time.
Good luck.
Best regards
Max


Well, you see, Max, I am busy and do not spend my time looking up F. related propaganda. Unlike you. Although this has been fun, I unfortunately have to exit out for a bit. I'm sure you'll have fun spending your "vacation" playing here, though. Razz
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 09:37 am
Achiek's comments are totally sensible, if "sensible" means drawing a conclusion about Rick's murder/suicide that is based on years of research into the adult criminal behavior of people who experienced the kind of childhood sexual abuse Rick did.

Understanding the relationship between Rick's childhood abuse and his crime doesn't excuse Rick's culpability for that crime. It's a whole lot more constructive to explain Rick's murder of Angela as the acting out of uncontrolled rage toward his pedophilic mother. To claim Rick murdered Angela because of evil spirits and the bad influence of friends places responsibility for his choices on forces outside of Rick. If you believe Rick isn't responsible for what he chose to do because he was "disturbed," then you also cannot conclude his desire to kill his mother had anything to do with his actions.

Why would anyone raised by Karen Zerby & David Berg want to kill his mother? I will agree that living with a memory of intercourse with his mother while sharing a bed with Berg certainly could be characterized as the evil spirit of bad parental influence.

David Berg is a documented pedophile. Doesn't it bother you to follow a religious teacher who molested small children?

To repeat: The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.
 
max 1
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 09:59 am
BlackElkk
What bothers me is people who commit premeditated murder.
You can speculate about the reasons as to why this tragic event happened but you cannot speculate on the fact that this man committed murder.
I do hope that you are not condoning murder?
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 10:56 am
No, I do not condone murder, and I don't have to speculate on Rick's motives for his crime. He told the world exactly why he had chosen to do what he did in a video tape. Have you ever watched it yourself, or are you content to rely on what other people tell you about it?

Do you condone pedophilia? If your answer is no, then tell me how you've rationalized the fact that your prophet, David Berg, is a well-documented pedophile, and that your current spiritual leader, Karen Zerby, is documented as being present at Berg's molestation of Merry Berg. Are you aware of documentation that your queen participated in Berg's molstation of Davida Kelley in 1989, over four years after adult sexual contact with children was officially banned?

Do you have any idea how damaged these two women are today because of what your "anointed" leaders did to them as children?

Six adults over a period of 30 years in various parts of the world have given public testimony to the effect that David Berg molested them as children. Do you suppose all six are liars? For that matter, is your founding father David Berg a liar when he describes his molestations of Davida in 1981 when she was five-years-old?

Quote:
Berg: (4) IF YOU WANT TO START TEACHING THE COURSE, YOU’VE GOTTA TAKE THE TEST! (Sara [Davidito]: Yes! Oh Lord!) And those are the tests. I mean, the Lord doesn’t let you teach it unless you can live it! That’s why I never tried to be a saint, I knew I couldn’t live it, so I never taught holiness or saintliness!—Ha! I just teach sex & that’s something I know I can live! Ha! (Sara: What a calling, yes!) PTL!
Berg: (9) THE TROUBLE WITH PEOPLE, THEY HAVE SUCH A FUNNY IDEA OF WHAT’S BAD! (Maria: yes!) Including a lot of good things that the Lord created to enjoy, like sex! XXX! (Sara: Hallelujah!) Mmm! Just lookin’ at you girls I can hardly keep my hands off you! The Lord gave us that hunger when we see you to want to get ahold of you & love you & kiss you & fuck ya! PTL!—So He could have lots more babies for his Kingdom!
Berg: (12) WHO WANTS TO SIT IN MY LAP?...
(14) Come Davida, come Honey. You didn’t get your lovin’ this morning. She likes to be here too. Don’t stick your knee on it though, Honey, that’s pretty hard for it. I love you. You gotta get up like this. I’ll show you how the big girls do, see? They get up like this. Now is that good? Do you like that, huh? She’s not sure if she likes it! Ha!
(15) OH SHE’S STAYING! SHE MUST LIKE IT! How’s that, huh? Give you a little ride. Feels good! It’s good exercise for me too! ILY! XXX! You smell so good! So pretty & so sexy! TYL! Hallelujah!

The Test of Faith--Time with Kids, #1281; 10-11-81


or

Quote:
119. (Berg:) I'M WARMING MY HANDS ON A COU'LE OF NICE BOSOMS. RIGHT? Bosoms sounds so nice & delicious & luscious & squeezy & nice & lovely! (Davida: Do you want to make some?) You want to make some? Right now? Right here? In front of the camera? (Davida: Yes!) Some love? Oh my! This girl is gettin' there fast! Well, where is she sitting? (Davida: I can't tell. On a penie!) Oh, my goodness. Shhh! You're not supposed to use these words on camera, it's against the censorship! She's sitting on Grandpa! (Davida: I thought they were fucking, actually fucking an angel!) We're not supposed to use that word on the camera, but you heard it--but you didn't hear it--) anyhow, it's an angel!

# 1338, Happy Birthday Dad—Happy Birthday Family! 2-18-81
[/quote][/i]
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 12:18 pm
max wrote:
Sensible and constructive comments only please

Mark, please let us do the moderating.

Some of your comments have not been very sensible and constructive either.

BTW...is that a beam in your eye? Smile
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 12:58 pm
Re: C4 Documnetary
Claire wrote:
As a spokesperson for The Family International (formerly known as the Children of God), I wish to state for the record that I find your coverage of my church to be extremely biased, one-sided and rife with falsities and inaccuracies.

Such as? Why doesn't she ever give specifics?
Claire wrote:
The reiterative usage of the label “cultâ€
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 06:52 pm
Can you say Duh???
Anonymous wrote:
I thought some of the things in Cutting Edge were sickening,but I'm quite sure that a number of years ago I saw Celeste on TV being interviewed at Dunton Bassett and she very robustly stated that had never been abused and wouldn't be living there if she had-I dont quite understand. Also,though I think that cults do very little good,the programme was unbalanced.


Then that video must have been fabricated by some very clever enemies who managed to act like family members filming him for dear Grandpa only because they knew it would make TF look bad 20 years later.

Oh, I forgot, having little girls strip is not abuse. My bad.
 
winter 1
 
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 09:28 am
This is a precious thread. In reality Max has such value.

And do you know why?

He comes up with the kind of argument TF does. So when someone reads these threads, Max's arguments stand on the side of TF and are blown to bits. An ignorant person would not even have to argue. They can read Max's words and learn.

GBY Max. Thanks for the good job. You're helping people. It's wonderful.
 
max 1
 
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 11:14 pm
winter wrote:
This is a precious thread. In reality Max has such value.

And do you know why?

He comes up with the kind of argument TF does. So when someone reads these threads, Max's arguments stand on the side of TF and are blown to bits. An ignorant person would not even have to argue. They can read Max's words and learn.

GBY Max. Thanks for the good job. You're helping people. It's wonderful.


I agree it is a very good thread, far better than some others I could mention!
As to being precious I'm not to sure of that.
I’m pleased that I have been of help to you.
My mission is coming to an end and you will then have to rely on “The Mutual Appreciation Societyâ€
 
 

 
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