Truths rather than Christianity for SGA healing

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Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 05:58 pm
Truths rather than Christianity for SGA healing
As I have been saying TF has so misused and twisted Christianity, that the way for their possible healing would definitely NOT include more Christianity indocrination. They were forced into something they did not choose, and therefore surely for the majority of them, they will have come out of the F with a hatred and bitterness for Christianity. This is easy to understand, and so they need the possible truths they can sort out individually to bring on their own healing.

They don't need to become 'out of control' whiners and complainers and VENTERS who mindlessly year after year spout their wrath and vile to the hurt of even themselves. But they surely need to sober up and start thinking for themselves. They need to get RATIONAL and LOGICAL and LEARN to THINK as INDIVIDUALS.

When they get to this mind set, then HEALING is possible. And if we can healp get there with possible truths of how the F errored, then we will be partof the solution rather than continuing them with a philospohy of venting, that has never healed anyone. Thuinking not non-thinking rage is surely part of the healing process.

And so finding truths will set them free, not more forced doctrine down their throats. Give themoptions, alternatives CHOICES. Don't now force ' venting' down their throats and show them by example that wrath is the cure for all their wounds.

We have to show them truths, even Christian truths couched in different wording that means the same thing.

Let me give specific examples.. First, let's put down the Family crime (or sin) and then counter with a specific trait needed to be learned.

1. GROUP FAITH ----- instill individualistic thinking and actions not group faith. Show them that individuals and friends can differ and yet still be friends and united.

2. Lack of SPEAKING UP --- show them how and when to speak up with courage and respect not only for themselves but for others.

3. Hierarchial Position gives PERKS ----- show them that only HARD WORK and personal EFFORT and commitment brings on real success.

4. Lack of Perrsonal RESPONSIBILITY ----- show them that we each must be responsible for our own actions. Encourage them to get out of the blame game. try to get them to break the cycle.

5. Leaders never say 'sorry' --- show them that in real relationships, we have to say sorry all the time because none of us are perfect all the time.
Show them that HUMILITY not arrogance has a chance to bring on success or healing

6. Lack of RESPECT for others under you ----- teach and show them that ALL people, have a right to be treated with respect on first meeting.

7. Leadership instilled RACISM ------ show them that racism hurts those beinmg abused and those abusing them. We are all one below the skin.

8. Leadership instilled group PRIDE ----- show them that we have to be proud of ourselves as individuals FIRST and Foremost and do so we have to individually choose principles which are therefore worthy. We have to show them the evils of nationalism and false group esteem. Our esteem has to come from not our group but from our identity.

So in all these areas and many, many others we have to help them sort out Family sins, or if you want to call them crimes, so be it. But stay away from Christian terminology, even when applying Christian principles, for they have been (for the most part) geared into hating Christianity and Christ. But give them simple straight forward truths rather than venting, and surely when given a chance most of them will choose real healing. Why because healing is a sober search for truths and solutions that can heal.

And maybe if some of us are Christians, after healing they may be strong enough to be able to sort out true Christianity and the false Christianity they were forced into, logically and rationally and according to truths and principles involved.


In My Opinion SGA's need alteratives and possible truths, that we could help them with, if other alternatives rather than venting were allowed and encouraged. Give them choices

David Jay Jordan Fisherman

PS) As for older Exers that supposedly joined for Jesus and yet actually joined for pleasures and perks and position, they probably can never get healed, as their consciences and minds have always been polluted by their bad CHOICE. But where there is life there is hope, and even some of these might be able to recover from their own mistakes if given a chance and having learned that their bad CHOICES didn;t give them their desired goals.
 
Jack 2
 
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 06:25 pm
Your thread subject is interesting because it makes sense. Truth (I don't know why you had to pluralize it) rather than Christianity. Then your ranting went its predictiable way of "thuinking" and "philospohy". Your subject is correct in that YOU shouldn't be bringing up christianity to help with "healing" SGAs. You should only be dealing with truth(s).

Work with me here buddy, you keep bringing up the word "truths" (about ten times this post). Are you familiar with its definition yet? Here are a couple quick ones from the dictionary (I guess they don't hand those out to kinesiology grads):
Quote:
1. a fact that has been verified
2. conformity to reality or actuality
3. reality; actuality

Okay, that's should be pretty clear.. So what the effin' hell are "possible truths" (a phrase used 3 times in your last post!)? Is that like when you have a fact that's soon to be verified? Jesus! Do you work for the Bush administration? How about almost actuality? I always liked the term "virtual reality" too. SGAs need Virtual Reality to heal!

Finally being that you were never an SGA you know nothing of the situation, you should not be speaking as if you were an expert or authority on the subject which you have an extremely skewed perspective of.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 09:11 pm
Seeing you are a SGA, Jack your sample and venting style is easily seen for you are surely a product of the venting philosphy that hasn't healed.
But if you say you are healed, then you have a lot of explaining why you have such anger within and such disrepect.

So let me now respond specifically to your negative remarks, with my comments in ...(...)


****************************


Okay, that's should be pretty clear.. So what the effin' hell are "possible truths" a phrase used 3 times in your last post!? (Jack truths are objective and yet subjectively we all have to figure them out for ourselves. No one can tell someone what a truth is. It can be staring someone in the face, but they have to recognize it, the same as ilate asking the question of 'What is truth' when truth was standing before him. But in this case we are not talking about the total encapsulation of all truths, but merely the simple truths that someone can figure out that will help them figure out what went wrong in the Family. You obviously didn;t read and udnerstand the eight specific examples I gave. Jack..

A truth should be found out that 'HARD WORK succeeds, laziness and trying to work up the suck up chain is not the method for success. Exers have to realize this and understand this if they want change. Life comes from work and effort rather than laziness. The F taught lazinesss for leaders who became the abusers. So don;t be like'em reject their philosphy and untruth, and become a hard working real individual. That's called healing Jack.. A mental physical principle can change us, and make us new individuals and heal us. But blame and venting does NOT help, it hinders and prolongs pain and anquish. Can;t you understand basic principles Jack. Figutre out truths for yourself, and then fulfill them in your life. Don;t be lazy. work. reject Family values that were untrue and hurtful. Figure out these truths or principles youirself. Get exers to grow up, We can't tell them what is true, but we certainly can suggest that HARK WORK is the cure rather than laziness. This is ONE Truth that if they adopt can help them, and if they adopt the right others ones they all work together to HEAL. This is a mathematical logical concept. Not a word game but principles, or as Isaiah said..precept upon precept. We just can't use Christian terminology with SGA's like you)

Is that like when you have a fact that's soon to be verified? Jesus! (Leave Jesus out of it with SGA's they will go out of control, like yourself if they hear the word Jesus. They blame him for their abuse rather than the devoid F that used his name falsely. So for healing just use principles and truths, and get exers to figure things out for themselves, but we can help with our vieews and possible truths. I would write up against group faith and for individuality, and would write up for Hard work rather than laziness, but its their choice. They have to choose hard work and individuality. And step by step they have to CHOOSE and make up their own minds)

Do you work for the Bush administration? (Foolish foolish foolish, Jack you are a perfect example of a SGA that has to learn to focus and concentrate and learn...and choose to get healed rather than being foolish and wrathful )

How about almost actuality? I always liked the term "virtual reality" too. SGAs need Virtual Reality to heal! (They do have to visualize different decisions they make. They have to see that venting has not brought on progress by those that have encouraged it themselves and others. They have to learn from reality of those that have adopted different truths and different principles. If they choose foolish people that spout foolishness, that is their problem. We can;t choose for them)

Finally being that you were never an SGA you know nothing of the situation, (I see you saw those before you, and by your actions and words I do see your situation. But its your life and if you don;t want CHOICES and don;t want SGA's to have other choices other than venting, so be it. I differ, I want healing and prefer freedom of speeech writing and CHOICE)you should not be speaking as if you were an expert or authority on the subject which you have an extremely skewed perspective of. (I differ, I know the wrath and actions of venters...they have personnally tried to get me fire from my job and I do know the spirit of wrath and foolishness and persevution that the unhealed venters continue to possess. They haven;t got healed, but the worst part is that they adamantly don;t want others to get healed. they are censors and therefore demand the silence of other options for EXERS. They don;t want others to speak up. even though an easy truth to discover about the F. is that NOT SPEAKING UP is and was a crime.)
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 10:59 pm
fiisherman wrote:
[...] truths are objective and yet subjectively we all have to figure them out for ourselves.


Are you sure you didn't mean to say, "truths are subjective and yet objectively we all have to figure them out for ourselves"? Because that would make much more sense.

Just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here.
 
evanman
 
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 11:17 am
What you seem to be offering won't work, like i said, concepts won't save anyone!

You might as well send them to AA, or something!
 
fisherman 1
 
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 12:41 pm
I differ, Everman as Christian concepts and truths will work, and the all or nothing approach does NOT have to be used.

Step by Christian step can work and will work, because small steps is the only way to be healed. It takes time and effort and may not be easy, but is possible.

We or others just can;t use the Christian name or suggest it is Christian based, because if they hear that word, they will reject the principle that would start to heal them or add to their healing.

They have been literally taught not to think and not to differentiate between what is really Christian and really true. So we have to NOT use
Christian terms around them. This meaning the SGA's, NOT the mature exers who have already had chance after chance and repeatedly chosen poorly.

But for the SGA's giving them Christian turths about life and TF can heal them...

Teach them individual faith, speaking up, individual responsibility, individual hard work,. teach them not to vent but search and use logic and reason.

Teach them about cause and effect so they can stopp the effects by changing their causes. Change them mentally so they can improve in real life, and eventually they may be strong enough to discern and CHOOSE freely whether or not to accept the truth, and the ultimate source of all healing. Jesus.

This is what I do on my website.

I teach math and physics and biology, sexuality , history, science, and any truths I find, as all real truths eventually resort one to the ultimate truthGiver... our Creater, as no truth is independant of HIM.

But let people and SGA's even devoid Exers learn just small truths before the ultimate ONE.

For it is step by step and at every step they have to be allowed to choose for themselves. No force and intimidation.

They can;t be forced into accepting venting as the only option for healing. They need other choices to be free. And small steps are easier to take than huge ones.

IMO

david
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 01:50 pm
fisherman wrote:
But let people and SGA's even devoid Exers learn just small truths before the ultimate ONE.

So, in other words, people need to accept your smaller opinions before they can learn to accept your ultimate opinion? I guess that makes sense.
 
Jack 2
 
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 05:06 pm
Another solid example of Christian "healing"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9898294/
 
fisherman 1
 
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 09:50 pm
No walker and Jack, you can fight teaching hard work, and teach laziness. You can fight me and other people's principle's about using respect and go on using lack of trespect and teaching it to Exers and SGA's.

You can oppose individuality and keep teaching exers to be groupies and use group tactics and group faith. You can disagree with me about teaching educating and searching for answers, and keep promoting ignorance. You can fight me and promote venting and wrath rather than healing because you have no idea how to heal or get healed.

And this all because you hate the origin of these ideals.

Your continued poor choices, but forcing these on exers and especially SGA's is really being very poor examples.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 10:41 pm
fisherman wrote:
No walker and Jack, you can fight teaching hard work, and teach laziness. You can fight me and other people's principle's about using respect and go on using lack of trespect and teaching it to Exers and SGA's.

You can oppose individuality and keep teaching exers to be groupies and use group tactics and group faith. You can disagree with me about teaching educating and searching for answers, and keep promoting ignorance. You can fight me and promote venting and wrath rather than healing because you have no idea how to heal or get healed.

And this all because you hate the origin of these ideals.

Your continued poor choices, but forcing these on exers and especially SGA's is really being very poor examples.


Fisherman, I'm not fighting you. I'm not trying to "disallow" you. I'm not promoting wrathful venting or ignorance. I'm not claiming to have an idea of how people should heal.

Show me where I have written anything in support of that and I will retract it immediately.

By the way, I've asked you 3 times now in what part you think you might have been at fault when the moderators of other exer forums banned you. You still have not answered me.

Consider this try number 4. I would like an answer, and I will persist in asking you for one.

PS to evanman: Since you're the only person Fisherman isn't ignoring, would you mind asking him this question for me, too. You might just have more luck getting an answer out of him than I have. Thanks.
 
evanman
 
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 08:51 am
I find the whole philosophy about promoting "Christian priciples" without mentioning Christ is somewhat dishonest.

I believe that Christ Himself is the only answer and the ONLY one who can heal.

If we are ashamed of Him because that we perceive it might turn people off from Him by mentioning Jesus Christ.

It is precisely this that turns so many off. The SGA's have been through their whole lives in CoG/TF being confronted with this type of duplicitous behaviour.

Hide things, denigh things, Lie!

I simply cannot agree with this type of doctrine!
 
Jack 2
 
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 11:25 am
fisherman wrote:
No walker and Jack, you can fight teaching hard work, and teach laziness
...
And this all because you hate the origin of these ideals.

Your continued poor choices, but forcing these on exers and especially SGA's is really being very poor examples.

1. If you think I "fight" the teaching of hard work, you are a moron. You are saying this to a kid who was homeless at 17 and is now 23 and I've earned just less than half a million dollars this year. It wasn't sitting on my ass that got me here. It was straight up hard work. You are an idiot.

2. Yes, if your ideals are Christian, they yes I do hate their origins. I don't believe anything out of a book that talks about talking snakes. I can't suspend my belief long enough for that.

3. What poor choices? I'm rich, successful and my life is consistently only getting better. If the girl I'm going out with tonight becomes my g/f, I could die next week and feel fullfilled. You are still an idiot.
 
fisherman 1
 
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:31 am
evanman wrote:
I find the whole philosophy about promoting "Christian priciples" without mentioning Christ is somewhat dishonest.

I believe that Christ Himself is the only answer and the ONLY one who can heal.

If we are ashamed of Him because that we perceive it might turn people off from Him by mentioning Jesus Christ.

It is precisely this that turns so many off. The SGA's have been through their whole lives in CoG/TF being confronted with this type of duplicitous behaviour.

Hide things, denigh things, Lie!

Disagree Everman, when you give every piece of bread to the poor do you have to say the name of Jesus, or can just helping them be part of their cure and the cessation of their hunger. You do not have to preach preach preach, day and night to the hungry or the abused, they want help so just humbly help them.... and if they want to know where your strength or love came from, they'yy ask. Different strokes for different folks.

Remember love is of God, so just loving is a witness, you don;t have to have a big sign and a big display of your giving or your healing, just do it for their sake.

And remember healing can make it psiible for them to later be rational and logical enough and loving enough to want to KNOW him. So trying to cure with a three second bandaid cover up will hardly heal all, and can be so superficial that many that still aren;t healed will blame Jesus rather accept him.

Life isn;t a stats race or a soul winning race so as to be able to declare numbers to a congregation. Its just giving from the heart.

And if we have to heal step by step so be it. Be patient rather than forcing healing. Be physical, mental, or whatever before being spiritual in many cases. Don;t have one set method when each person is an individual.

And besides if teaching truths, any real truth no matter in what field connects up with other truths meaning that in a real search, a real truth seeker eventually has to come to the TRUTH, Jesus.

Don;t force and lose people that could have been won by simple love and simple slow truths and real deep healings.
 
evanman
 
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:28 am
"Christian step by christian step" only applies to "Christians".

If a person does not know Christ then what's the use in trying to get them to follow?

People need to repent, believ and be Baptised in the name of te father, the Son and the Holy Spirt/ghost, according to the words of the Apostles.

Why not give out your bread in the name of Jesus--or is this because the name of Jesus might put them off?
 
fisherman 1
 
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 10:53 am
All Christians do not follow the Lord, look at the churchies, there may be a few among them that are Christians, but like the good seed falling on poor shallow soil etc. they fall by the wayside and don;t follow.

The step by step, precept by precept truth applies to ALL, not just some.

But some never even take the first step.
 
evanman
 
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 05:58 pm
Salvation only comes when people call upon the name of the lord.

What is that name?
 
Monger 1
 
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:03 pm
Christina Scabbia the metal maiden?
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:04 pm
evanman wrote:
What is that name?

Umm...Lord Justice Ward? Razz
 
evanman
 
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:49 am
Question was directed to Fisherman, but you lot know who i'm talking about anyhow.

nevertheless, thanx for the humorous interjection!
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 12:09 pm
evanman wrote:
Question was directed to Fisherman, but you lot know who i'm talking about anyhow.

nevertheless, thanx for the humorous interjection!


Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt. I just couldn't help myself. Carry on. Smile
 
 

 
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