Belief in God?

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Reply Tue 18 Sep, 2007 04:00 am
Belief in God?
People believed the world was flat before Columbus. It looks flat to me. Why do we believe that which we can't see?

I'm not a member or former member, and was raised by an atheist. "There is no God, period." that was my spiritual childhood. I believe now because of two former SGA's. Their belief that without the Lord they would not have survived the Family is proof to me He exists.

How else would you explain how someone who was spiritually, emotionally, physically and sexually abused their entire childhood in the name of God manage to still have strong faith in his existence?

-Denyel (Jason's Wife using his username)
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Tue 18 Sep, 2007 09:31 am
JASONLANIK wrote:
People believed the world was flat before Columbus.


Actually, that is more of an old-wives tale. Very few educated people actually believed the world was flat back then . . . all the way back to the Classical Greeks.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 02:23 pm
Denyel, you said, "Their belief that without the Lord they would not have survived the Family is proof to me He exists. How else would you explain how someone who was spiritually, emotionally, physically and sexually abused their entire childhood in the name of God manage to still have strong faith in his existence?"

it is interesting that you feel this way. i can tell you one very strong reason why it is LIKELY that this would happen --traumatized people often look for something mental to hold on to to keep them sane in trying times...hope, family, loved ones, religion, etc to help them feel like what they're going thru is not in vain and that someone or something cares about them, etc.

In my case, praying, believing in Jesus, someone who would reward me for all my pain was a happy alternative to being alone mentally and yes, it did help keep me stronger, and i still do believe in Jesus for my own reasons, but i reject the jesus the family teaches because that jesus is in my opinion made up to project the things they wanted us to live by.
 
m 2
 
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 04:13 pm
Re: Belief in God?
JASONLANIK wrote:
Their belief that without the Lord they would not have survived the Family is proof to me He exists.

What if they believed that they wouldn't have survived without Santa?
 
JASONLANIK
 
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 10:04 pm
Belief, Columbus & Santa
First this is off the subject; however. a wives' tale?

I'm not easily convinced. Can you cite your sources? I know most of the ex-members were denied proper education, but I can tell you what I was taught in grade school. People in Columbus' time thought Columbus was crazy and going to sail off the end of the Earth and fall into a vast unknown.

I'm not saying I don't believe you. I am aware that much of what we were taught in grade school had a bias slant.

Belief

We all choose what we want to believe. For me, God is real. A presence in my life I cannot deny even if I wanted to.

Don't misunderstand. There is a difference between Faith in God and religion.

I don't believe in religion. You are all living examples of what a monster that can become. When evil is justified with the Word of God, it's blasphemy, and its not God who is committing the act.

Pick a church and you'll find some form of blasphemy. At the root of this evil is the church-goers who think because they go to church all their sins are forgiven. As if it gives them a license to commit the sins since they are already forgiven.

God does not intervene in this world. Everyone gets to make their own decisions. Some of us are more disadvantaged than others, but we all have a cross to bear. The weight of that burden is determined by the barer.

My father is an atheist. As a child I was told, "there is no God, period." Since I did not know God as a child, I am grateful for him now. I will never be alone. Dismiss Him if that's your perogative. It does me no harm.

Some of the few SGA escapees I've met had turned their back on God because of their anger towards their abusers. It was evident that it was a real struggle for them. Even if they didn't want to believe in God, God still believed in them.

Definition of Blasphemy: A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.

As far as Santa goes, well, you all know better than I; he's “Satan Claus.â€
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 11:07 pm
JASONLANIK wrote:
I'm not easily convinced. Can you cite your sources? I know most of the ex-members were denied proper education, but I can tell you what I was taught in grade school. People in Columbus' time thought Columbus was crazy and going to sail off the end of the Earth and fall into a vast unknown.


Of course I can cite my sources. One of the main things I have learned since leaving TFI (and graduating from university), is that claims of any sort are worthless unless they can be backed up by verifiable evidence and/or reputable sources.

See the 74 "References" listed at the end of the Flat Earth article at Wikipedia (note: I am not claiming Wikipedia as a "reputable source", however, the references at the end generally are).
Quote:


It must first be reiterated that with extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat.

...

Historians of science have been proving this point for at least 70 years [...] without making notable headway against the error. Schoolchildren in the US, Europe, and Japan are for the most part being taught the same old nonsense. How and why did this nonsense emerge?

--"The Myth of the Flat Earth", Summary by Jeffrey Burton Russell, for the American Scientific Affiliation Conference, August 4, 1997 at Westmont College.


See also: "The Myth of the Flat Earth" for a nice history of the subject.

Quote:
A recent study of medieval concepts of the sphericity of the Earth noted that "since the eighth century, no cosmographer worthy of note has called into question the sphericity of the Earth."

--Klaus Anselm Vogel, "Sphaera terrae - das mittelalterliche Bild der Erde und die


That is, for at least 1,200 years, no educated person worth his salt thought that the earth was flat.

PS: "On the Shoulders of Giants" by Stephen W. Hawking (Editor) is a superbly researched book and considers, in great length, the history of science and what we knew and when we knew it. I highly recommend it.

PPS: "The Flat Earth Myth", by Professor Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 12:54 am
education
Impressive!

U.S. grade school children were taught Columbus was a revolutionary thinker and most people believed the world was flat in 1492.

"Many history books tell the story that the learned men of the day ridiculed the explorer's theory of a round earth and proposed that the Earth was indeed flat."

http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/10-04-04.asp

Anyhow I was speaking metaphorically. There are more examples of facts we cannot see; such as, emotion, the ozone and the hole in it, plates beneath the Earth.

On the subject of education, I am trying to convince my husband some education would do him good. Even if he is in his late 30's and managed to get this far without it.

The last time he was in a classroom was in the P.I. in 4th grade. I guess the "leaders" of the group decided no system schools for group kids at that time.

Any arguments to help further my cause?

-denyel, wife of the teen terror.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 03:11 am
dl wrote:
Anyhow I was speaking metaphorically.


No. Just admit you were wrong; It is much easier. I go out of my way to understand the history of science and you just write, "I was speaking metaphorically". It does not work for me. Admit it: You were most wrong.

I am tired of people thinking that, just because we were born and raised in a cult, we have not tried to educate ourselves about the reality of life and history and science. I am sorry, but some of us have gone _WAY_ beyond our upbringing!
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 08:32 am
oh yeah! Smile
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 07:48 pm
Denyel,

I apologise. I re-read your post and realised that you were referring, metaphorically, in your argument, not in your statement that people believed that the world was flat before Columbus.
 
JASONLANIK
 
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 10:38 pm
wrong
believe me, living with an exmember for 19 years has taught me something about admiting i am wrong when i am wrong.

-dl wife of the teen terror
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 06:58 am
how long ago did he leave?
 
JASONLANIK
 
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 01:41 pm
reply
Cookie wrote:
how long ago did he leave?

I left in 1986.
 
 

 
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