xFamily

Read Topic
Reply

Fools

xFamily
» General
» Fools

Get Email Updates • Email this Topic • Print this Page

Fools
Fools from my generation, you mock us, but why? Whatâ€™s wrong with you people? Why can't you simply leave us alone?

When was the last time I ever told you how to run your life? Quit trying to tell me whatâ€™s wrong with mine.

Let me ask a question: If you woke up every morning and found you had to chip at a cliff wall with a straw to be able to survive, how would you feel? How much more so to be found trying to undermine God?

It must suck to be you, to wake up each morning to a perfectly impossible task. You know itâ€™s never going to work, I know it, and so do each of the other people on this place. Why do you continue on with the rant?

I think I am going to ask God a special favor when we get to Heaven: to be able to stand there and to see the looks on your faces when you found out exactly what you have done. Priceless is the only word I can think of to describe it.

Just imagine baiting a 500-pound bear, empty handed. Now replace that bear with the Creator of the entire universe. Once again, sucks to be you.

But then, logic was never used by the good ol Master Deciever. No, twisted truths and lies were all he ever used. A small amount of truth, to be certain, but so twisted and distorted, the media today looks like a perfectly honest establishment.

I wonder what made you all so biased against us? Was it because you couldnâ€™t make it? Was it too hard for you? Were they asking you to do something that went against your pride, your â€œindependence,â€

Do you feel better now that you have gotten all of that off your chest?

Re: Fools
I enjoyed reading your rant and even agree with some of your opinions. But I was rather amused by how little interest you seem to have in actually getting to know the people you've just vented about.

Thanks also for the memories. I think I used to be a lot like you when I was in The Family. Perhaps, someday you'll also come to the realization that there is more to be learned in listening and questioning, than there is in defending what is essentially nothing more than a treasured opinion.

Your above post is probably just a "hit and run", so I'm not going to waste my efforts addressing each of your erroneous statements and assumptions. But if you're really interested in getting some answers to the questions you asked, jot me an email sometime (through my profile on here) or stick around on this site. I'd love to answer them if you're willing to listen.

Shoot your wad.

How were you just like me? Somehow I dont think you were. You didnt have what it takes to stay in it till the end. Big difference between the two of us.

I actually do know some of the people that are ranting against us. They had nothing but the best, and look how they turned out.

Opinions are like assholes: Everyone has one and they stink. Let me keep mine.

Nothing I have said above is fictional or erroneous. Maybe you personally arent described by all the traits mentioned above, but at least one person here falls under each thing I said. Take what part of the shoe fits, and leave the rest for those who are described by those parts that didnt match you.

This guy's religious rant was for The Family and against "backsliders" who oppose child abuse? I had no idea. I guess I didn't read it carefully but at first I thought his rant was against The Family.

It was nothing against the people who oppose the wrongdoings that have been comitted by individuals in The Family. It is against those who are trying to shut us down, despite all the good we are doing. As well as those who rant and rave that we are evil.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

...the wrongdoings that have been comitted by individuals in The Family.

Does that include your leaders: Zaren "Maria" Zerby, Steven "Peter" Kelly, Samuel "Matthew" Perfilio, etc?

question for you, "DFTC"...

Dying for this Cause wrote:

How were you just like me? Somehow I dont think you were. You didnt have what it takes to stay in it till the end. Big difference between the two of us.

by that, are you implying this is the end of the family? you will only know your final status at the END of the family.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I tell you, rather than traveling all over the world, rather than experiencing different cultures, rather than feeling like you matter to someone, rather than making the world better one life at a time, letâ€™s live it your way.

Jeezz... what makes you think a lot of us don't travel MORE than you? i do, i am fairly sure.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I wonder what it must feel like to be a loser. That is what they call those who don't win in a competition. You poor things. Your wounded egos must have something to do with these stupid rants against those of us who are still in the race.

huh? the rat race? Laughing

and you can turn your question to us right back on you, because i for one don't feel like a loser, nor do i have a wounded ego, nor do i rant against you or what you believe, i just think it's really weird. what i also think is that like me when i was in the family, you have a persecution complex. I've been out for a few years, and know a lot of these people you're talking about, and i don't know anyone who's trying to bring you down. who's telling you all this stuff about us all trying to bring you down? if you aren't allowed on all the ex-member sites it's only family people trying to make you dislike us? ever thot of that?

Dying for this Cause wrote:

You either gave up, or were given the pink slip. Either way, you wouldnâ€™t stand a chance in real life if you gave your job or current occupation what you gave to The Family.

and you think that because....?

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Once you have left, then itâ€™s fine to dedicate your whole life and time to one objective, the downfall of Godâ€™s chosen.

oh my god, dude, YOU are the one ranting. you sound very bizzare. if you lump us all together, then any one of our answers should suffice as an answer for the collective. MY objectives are to be a good wife, mother, friend, to serve god in any way possible (if i really feel it's god speaking to my heart and not just some leader of a church, PS: you are the perfect definition of a church and a cult and don't say you're not, remember we know, we grew up in it, and we also know the other side, something you don't seem to understand), to be successful and happy. Downfall of god's chosen? wo, whatta lie someone has told you.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Unfortunately, now all you can do is look back with anger at what was probably the best time that your life ever went through, or, at the rate youâ€™re all going, ever will.

all i can say to that is that maybe you wish that's our state, but my state of mind is nothing of the sort, nor do i, nor have i EVER regreted leaving the family. it was not the best time of my life, i had ups and downs, just as i do now, but i am happier now than i have ever been and i am surrounded by wonderful, loving family and friends. i did not give up, nor was i given the pink slip. i left because i didn't believe in what you do. there's a difference.
since you love analogies, try this one, it's like if you go up to a girl who's got some chub and she asks you how she looks. you, being raised to, thus feeling the need to tell it to her straight tell her, well you could lose some weight, and then she tells you, "I'm pregnant". ... just cuz you see things one way, you don't know until you KNOW, Why don't you try to be a little bit more educated before you give a lecture. would maybe do you some good, as far as the kind of response you'll receive. Until then, try not to sound like you maybe had one to many, eh?

Man! Very Happy

PS: Dying for the Cause, can i ask how old you are? that may give a little insight as to your feelings and choice of words.

Cookie wrote:

Dying for the Cause, can i ask how old you are?

I am going to make a wild guess that he or she (probably a "he") is somewhere between 19-22. Not old enough to remember (or even be born yet) the majority of the things we are talking about. Of course, with a challenge like that, he would naturally claim to be "much older". ;-)

I am also going to make a prediction (or, "prophecy", if you prefer) that he will leave the group in the next five years. Any takers? 100-to-1?

hee hee. yeah. count me in. his feelings and sentiments that gush off his keyboard remind me of my own about a year before i left. Laughing

Re: Fools
just one last thing, i find this soooooo hillarious...

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Fools from my generation, ...If you woke up every morning and found you had to chip at a cliff wall with a straw to be able to survive, how would you feel?

why would i ever have to chip at a cliff wall with a straw to survive? Rolling Eyes

and if i only had to "chip at it" i'd use teeth, not a straw. and you never said that the cliff wall wasn't made of very brittle rock. in which case eventually a straw would do just fine. don't get it. maybe you could clarify? and are you, as your name indicates, "dying for this cause"? and if so, what cause is that?

oh yeah, and why do you feel you are "dying" for it? Confused

bye for today. catch your responses hopefully, (if you're not scared off) tomorrow. 8)

eagerly awaiting your answers and thots,
Cookie.

Re: Fools

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Itâ€™s as Toynbee says, â€œThe only thing we learn from history, is that we never learn from history.â€

Cookie wrote:

by that, are you implying this is the end of the family? you will only know your final status at the END of the family.

Nope, I know what I am: I am a full time disciple of Christ. Be it in the Family, or out, wherever he calls me that's where I'll be

Cookie wrote:

Jeezz... what makes you think a lot of us don't travel MORE than you? i do, i am fairly sure.

Good for you then. Like I said, take what applies and run with it. Leave the rest to those people here that arent commenting on it and it hit home to them.

Cookie wrote:

huh? the rat race? and you can turn your question to us right back on you, because i for one don't feel like a loser, nor do i have a wounded ego, nor do i rant against you or what you believe, i just think it's really weird. what i also think is that like me when i was in the family, you have a persecution complex. I've been out for a few years, and know a lot of these people you're talking about, and i don't know anyone who's trying to bring you down. who's telling you all this stuff about us all trying to bring you down? if you aren't allowed on all the ex-member sites it's only family people trying to make you dislike us? ever thot of that?

It has nothing to do with not being allowed. It's discouraged because some people could be caused to doubt. If it doesnt apply to you personally then dont take it as such. This is for those of you in cyberland that are out there. If not everything applies find which shoe fits and wear it.

Cookie wrote:

and you think that because....?

You quit.

Cookie wrote:

oh my god, dude, YOU are the one ranting. you sound very bizzare. if you lump us all together, then any one of our answers should suffice as an answer for the collective. MY objectives are to be a good wife, mother, friend, to serve god in any way possible (if i really feel it's god speaking to my heart and not just some leader of a church, PS: you are the perfect definition of a church and a cult and don't say you're not, remember we know, we grew up in it, and we also know the other side, something you don't seem to understand), to be successful and happy. Downfall of god's chosen? wo, whatta lie someone has told you.

Talk to God. I have been. Take it up with him. I am very happy for you and will keep you in my prayers that you will find a happy life. God bless you for trying to do whatever you can to better humanity.

Cookie wrote:

all i can say to that is that maybe you wish that's our state, but my state of mind is nothing of the sort, nor do i, nor have i EVER regreted leaving the family. it was not the best time of my life, i had ups and downs, just as i do now, but i am happier now than i have ever been and i am surrounded by wonderful, loving family and friends. i did not give up, nor was i given the pink slip. i left because i didn't believe in what you do. there's a difference.
since you love analogies, try this one, it's like if you go up to a girl who's got some chub and she asks you how she looks. you, being raised to, thus feeling the need to tell it to her straight tell her, well you could lose some weight, and then she tells you, "I'm pregnant". ... just cuz you see things one way, you don't know until you KNOW, Why don't you try to be a little bit more educated before you give a lecture. would maybe do you some good, as far as the kind of response you'll receive. Until then, try not to sound like you maybe had one to many, eh?

Actually I am discouraged to say what I think bluntly because i should try to avoid hurting peoples feelings.

In response yes I am 19, no need to deny it.

No I do not see myself joining your crowd anytime soon. Hence the name dying for it. I will die in it, therefore for it.

The chipping is the analogy. It's the same as fighting God. And they say the leave to get an education. Which of the top antagonists was it that is currently a janitor?

Cheers.

Dying for this Cause, there is no use analyzing your words with logic. Because the Family teaches that the mind and thoughts are bad things, unless of course you think God's thoughts.

So therefore I would just like to say that you seem to have a lot of hatred inside. Were you raped or otherwise abused by some ex-members? If not, then please refrain from insulting me and my friends. This is the insult I am referring too:

Quote:

What exactly is this independence we are talking about here? The kind that gives you the ability to choose how you ride the same transportation to the same job you do every day from 9 â€“ 5? The kind that says, â€œHeck, Iâ€™m tired of a life of making mankind somewhat of a better place. Let me go and do my own thing, making neither myself or anyone elseâ€™s lives better. As a matter of fact, let me go and screw over as many people trying to enjoy life as much as is possible given our calling.â€

Re: Fools
OK, so now that I know it wasn't just a hit and run, here are my replies:

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Let me ask a question: If you woke up every morning and found you had to chip at a cliff wall with a straw to be able to survive, how would you feel? How much more so to be found trying to undermine God?

You've ignored the fact that your "cliff" is crumbling of its own accord. Since 1999, The Family's rate of attrition is an average of 10% per year. Do you know what that means? It means that in a decade from now The Family will be about half its size and in 20 years, it'll be nearly gone. And that's not even counting the number of members you'll lose when the baby-boomers start kicking the bucket.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

It must suck to be you, to wake up each morning to a perfectly impossible task. You know itâ€™s never going to work, I know it, and so do each of the other people on this place. Why do you continue on with the rant?

Actually, knowing that my friends, siblings and parents are now out of the group as well and are finally creating a life for themselves because of my "chipping away", makes me feel pretty good. Much better than I felt while I was in The Family.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

But then, logic was never used by the good ol Master Deciever. No, twisted truths and lies were all he ever used. A small amount of truth, to be certain, but so twisted and distorted, the media today looks like a perfectly honest establishment.

See, this is where you present a conflict: You want us to believe that you are doing good and making a difference in the world, and yet you come across as completely heartless and callous towards the very real suffering many of us went through while in The Family. How are we supposed to believe that you care about those in need when you can't even empathize with your own peers and former brothers and sisters who were hurt and wounded by The Family?

I would challenge you to listen to our stories, and then look us dead in the eyes and tell us we're liars.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I wonder what made you all so biased against us? Was it because you couldnâ€™t make it? Was it too hard for you? Were they asking you to do something that went against your pride, your â€œindependence,â€

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Which of the top antagonists was it that is currently a janitor?

Oh, so that's what it is. You think we all ended up with lousy jobs and lives and had it so much better in the Family. Makes sense. I don't blame you for coming to that conclusion. But you've been misinformed.

I've been in contact with a LOT of ex-Family SGAs, and if there's one thing I can tell you, it is that those who are seeking justice are doing so because they have finally gotten sucessfull enough to where they have the time to do so.

None of the vocal ex-SGAs that I know are struggling or have a bleak future.

No, we're doing this because we've managed to pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps far enough to have the time to make sense of a twisted past.

And dude, you're only 19. Your amygdala hasn't even fully developed yet. I know you feel right now that you will die serving God in The Family, but you haven't been around long enough to make an informed decision on that.

I'm 10 years older than you are. That means that you hadn't even been born when the adults were arranging sharing nights for us kids, and you were only 2 when I went through a horrible Victor Camp.

I'm happy that you escaped the experiences we had. But just because they didn't happen to you, doesn't mean they didn't happen to us, nor does it give you the right to call us liars.

God, you remind me so much of myself when I was your age. Smile

WalkerJ:

How many did Gideon have? His attrition rate in the matter of a day must have been mammoth. Didnt stop him from destroying an army way bigger than his.

The people I follow today had nothing to do with the abuse you received. I have a strange feeling it wasnt either Mama or Peter doing it, much less the Lord God almighty sticking his hands in your pants. Those are the people I follow. You cant blame actions of individuals on the leaders. For example, why dont you go yell at Bush for the soldiers sodomizing Iraqi captives in the secret prisons. It's all his fault, after all he is the leader of his country, no? Look around you. Ten bucks says if you live in a city, within a mile of you lives at least one of these categories: rapist, pedophile, porngrapher, homosexual, murderer. You count out all the ones you find in our group, but get a grip. How many rapes, murders, etc are comitted each minute in the country that is supposedly God-fearing. Go yell at Bush for that too. As a matter of fact try to string him up for all that. He is the leader of the USA.

I can probably bet any of those people that did those things to you are not even in the Family anymore. At least if they are their conscience is giving them hell.

I take it you believe evil spirits dont exist. Probably if you believe in spirits at all, they would be flowery drug induced visions, that share love and universal peace. Well, with every good comes evil. The bible talks about evil spirits. They named Gabriel, Micheal and others. They named the Prince of Persia. Doubt them too? Why cant others name more?

If you are so insistent on bringing criminals to justice, arm yourself with pepper spray and a bungee cord and go and hang all those killers, rapists, etc that live near you. There are plenty to be found if you live in a big city. Bring them to justice. That'll ease your conscience.

Do you have any idea how many apologetic letters Mama, Peter, Dad, and others have issued, apologizing for the actions of people that misunderstood or misapplied what was said? I think after all that they'd get pretty sick of people harping on the same thing. Think up something new, its getting old.

Abusive environments? How come there are so many YOUR AGE still in the Family that never cease to praise God for their upbringing?

And I bet Darwin could tell you how you were truly born from a monkey and evolved just yesterday with a fully functioning brain and a head full of memories. Wouldnt make it right, would it?

It is true once saved always saved. The size of your mansion however will depend on the amount of material you send up. Seeing as you grew up here, remember the story of Sophie the Washerwoman? I believe deconstruction also takes place when you send material that opposes the good stuff you send up. Regardless of how nice a house is, it still looks crappy when covered in slime. If they did put everything you sent up there on your house then I wonder what it looks like now. Maybe God will only stick the good stuff up.

I call it stupid when you dredge up things that are corrected and no longer exist. You talk about all these things in the past. That's exactly what they are, past. Why dont you go sue Germany and try to destroy them. They were the Holocaust. PAST. All these things you mention have been corrected and changed, or at least to the knowledge of the leadership you slander. I wonder what would happen if all that was said on these places was taken, contexed, and then we sued you all for libel. We could make a tidy sum I think. Great for the tithe. How many people have been kicked out for all these things you accuse us of currently doing? Every last one that has been found out. I dont know of anything going on where I am. How do you know so much and you havent been here for years? Or is it once again THE PAST?

Notice the whole stop part. When you run a race, follow an order, etc, you dont stop to question. You just do it. Here's a thought: Next time a police officer pulls you over for speeding, ask him why he chose you to pull over. Ask him why he didnt pull the next person over, seeing as you were going just as fast as him. Then ask him why he's even wearing a badge and uniform, seeing as he cant differentiate between two speeding cars. Killer recipe for a beating I guarantee. Most people dont take you questioning their authority too nicely, do they. Just the fact that they tried to explain it to you, and let you take your time to walk out the door, rather than boot you out, should be a signal.

Winter:
I have ex member friends. My brother and sister are both ex members. Thankfully they have gotten on with their lives.
I have seen what people are whining about. Oh yes, I knew some of them. I lived with some. Sunny James, for instance. Most of the people from Japan, I have known at least passably. They had the best upbringing in the world, and I mean in the world. And yet, what are they doing now? Trying to destroy what they grew up on. Pitiful.
What gets me furious is that those people try to erase all the good memories they had and focus solely on all the bad. Yes, i could be bitter for those times I wasnt allowed to eat ice cream. Yes, I could hate my parents for the times they dragged me away from the TV screen. Yes, i could go and kill a random person I lived with because I, horror, got a spanking. But all those things were for my good, therefore I look back and am actually thankful for those spankings, because they made me the man I am today.

Maybe I shouldnt have been so forceful and insulting in my words, therefore I will apologize. However the feelings that caused those words remain. I hate to see good come to naught because of the lies that are spread by people like: Sam Ajemian, James Penn, Daniel Roselle, Sunny James, etc. That is what made me write that.

Jesus' burden is easy and light, if you're carrying it with him. It is something you cant do alone. Any questions as to why they were too heavy? Try seeing if you were doing things yourself, or actually asking for his help. Clue?

If the fruit was death, how come you are writing this? Arent you dead? Who in the Family killed you?

Are we arguing semantics here? Many pastors and great men of the world have divorced their wives. Look at any rag mag to see the latest: Justin divorces latest flame. ben dumps mary. Yakkity yada ya. That's the latest fad. How can you get all righteous with us, when you dont write Ben Affleck or Britney Spears and get uppity with them for their divorces. Pity. Maybe Angelina Jolie will listen.

Now if we are talking the reults of the parents teaching the children, I wonder what kind of upbringing Hitler had. You think his parents were so gung ho about killing off everyone in the world other than the blondes? I think not. After all they were simple people, painters I believe. Children make their own choices, and the parents cant always be blamed for them. If I make a choice that goes against what I was taught by my parents, my parents cant be blamed. If I make a choice to go against the laws or break them, go sue the law? Nope, choices are made by each person and each person can only be held responsible for the choices they made.

Go ahead, I was hoping you would drag Ricky Rodriguez into this. You have no idea how incensed I was by hearing that he had murdered Angela Smith in cold blood. I thanked God he had comitted suicide for his own sake, that's how furious I was. I knew her well. She was an awesome person who had no right to die how she did. Yet, it still happened. Why, you ask? I dont know why. But I can bet Ricky is sitting in his Heavenly mansion wondering the same thing himself. All those choices he made were his own. Seeing as we are taught to love everyone, wouldnt that go against his upbringing. Therefore, David Berg can be aquitted of any charges of accomplice to murder by heritage. Can you blame your Mom and Dad for when you get drunk and puke on the floor? Generally they teach you not to get drunk. Same principle applies.

WalkerJ:

I wonder why you went through those Victor camps? I heard they only sent people who NEEDED IT.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

How many did Gideon have? His attrition rate in the matter of a day must have been mammoth. Didnt stop him from destroying an army way bigger than his.

So if being in a Gideon's band is what you really want, then why on earth are you angry at us for helping to bring that about? Shouldn't you be thanking us? Razz

Dying for this Cause wrote:

The people I follow today had nothing to do with the abuse you received.

OK, well then tell me who it was that published these photographs for the whole Family to see? Who published the Victor Camp series? Because if it wasn't for those I wouldn't have gotten abused.

Did you know that at a Summit meeting, one of the SGAs asked Matthew why they couldn't just excommunicate everyone who ever had sexual contact with children? His reply was that if they did that, then almost everyone in the room would be excommunicated, too. Feel free to ask Matthew yourself if you don't believe me.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

You cant blame actions of individuals on the leaders. For example, why dont you go yell at Bush for the soldiers sodomizing Iraqi captives in the secret prisons. It's all his fault, after all he is the leader of his country, no?

Bad analogy. Bush never told his soldiers it was OK to sodomize POWs. He didn't publish a manual on how to do it. He didn't promote, encourage or institutionalize it.

Berg and Maria did all of that on the subject of sexual, medical and physical abuse, and I can prove it with their own writings.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Look around you. Ten bucks says if you live in a city, within a mile of you lives at least one of these categories: rapist, pedophile, porngrapher, homosexual, murderer. You count out all the ones you find in our group, but get a grip. How many rapes, murders, etc are comitted each minute in the country that is supposedly God-fearing. Go yell at Bush for that too. As a matter of fact try to string him up for all that. He is the leader of the USA.

I find it disturbing that you categorize homosexuals and pornographers with murderers, rapists and pedophiles. Neither of those are crimes by western standards.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I can probably bet any of those people that did those things to you are not even in the Family anymore. At least if they are their conscience is giving them hell.

And? So what if they left the Family. Does that excuse their crime? Do you think I wouldn't want them brought to justice just because they left The Family? Think again.

Unfortunately for you, the people who abused me and my peers are still in The Family. Some of them are leaders others are grass-root members. But they are still in The Family.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I take it you believe evil spirits dont exist. Probably if you believe in spirits at all, they would be flowery drug induced visions, that share love and universal peace.

I can't believe you're still trying to demonize me because I am speaking out about my abuse. How rude and heartless of you. You don't even know me and yet you feel free to assume the most ludicrous things about me. Shame on you.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

If you are so insistent on bringing criminals to justice, arm yourself with pepper spray and a bungee cord and go and hang all those killers, rapists, etc that live near you. There are plenty to be found if you live in a big city. Bring them to justice. That'll ease your conscience.

I pick my battles. If there are killers and rapists in my area of town, I do not know them nor their victims. But I DO know who my abusers are, and I know who their victims are. Contrary to what you might think, I've given this a lot of thought, and I know exactly why I am vocal about my past.

I fight the abusers in The Family because it is a battle I can fight and I can win.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Do you have any idea how many apologetic letters Mama, Peter, Dad, and others have issued, apologizing for the actions of people that misunderstood or misapplied what was said? I think after all that they'd get pretty sick of people harping on the same thing. Think up something new, its getting old.

I challenge you to show me a letter in which Maria, Peter or any member of WS says, "What we did was a crime. We hurt you and we will have to live with the knowledge of that for the rest of our lives. We know an apology will never make up for the hurt we caused you and we know we cannot demand your forgiveness, but we want to do anything we can to help you heal."

Even something close would suffice. Believe me, it would do a world of good to hear them say that.

Unfortunately, they haven't even admitted fault--a crucial first step in apologizing. I think this article sums up my feeling on Maria and Peter's "apologies" to date quite well.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Abusive environments? How come there are so many YOUR AGE still in the Family that never cease to praise God for their upbringing?

You'll have to ask them about that. I don't know what Homes they grew up in, or what they experienced. Again, I fail to see how their lack of abusive experiences negates my own.

Additionally, I can tell you this. When I was in The Family, I would have sworn on the Bible that I wasn't abused and never witnessed abuse. Now, having had the chance to compare my life to those in the rest of society or imagine my daughters experiencing what I did , I cannot label my experiences as anything but abusive.

I mean, if someone arranged weekly sexual sharing nights for my daughters, I'd call it sexual abuse and so would you.

If someone beat my daughters with a cane, I'd call it physical abuse and so would you.

If someone denied my daughters an education after 6th grade, I would call that educational neglect and so would you.

If someone made my daughters fast and pray and placed them on silence restriction because they had spiritual problems, I'd call it psychological abuse and so would you.

If someone denied my daughters access to medical care because they wanted them to have faith for their healing, I'd call it medical neglect and so would you.

You must have some serious cognitive dissonance if you can call these things abuse now but fail to label the past actions as such.

Let me ask you this. All I need is a Yes or No answer from you:

Do you think that what is being done to Davidito in these photographs is abusive or not? http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Image:My_flirty_fish_pg_3.jpg

Yes or No?

You either believe it is abusive and you condemn the action and its perpetrators as such, or you believe it is not abusive and you would see no problem in having someone perform the same acts on your own children (should you have any).

Yes or No?

Dying for this Cause wrote:

And I bet Darwin could tell you how you were truly born from a monkey and evolved just yesterday with a fully functioning brain and a head full of memories. Wouldnt make it right, would it?

How did we get from the subject of abuse to the theory of evolution? Would you mind keeping your arguments coherent?

Dying for this Cause wrote:

It is true once saved always saved. The size of your mansion however will depend on the amount of material you send up. Seeing as you grew up here, remember the story of Sophie the Washerwoman? I believe deconstruction also takes place when you send material that opposes the good stuff you send up. Regardless of how nice a house is, it still looks crappy when covered in slime. If they did put everything you sent up there on your house then I wonder what it looks like now. Maybe God will only stick the good stuff up.

Alrighty, then. If it makes you feel better to believe that, go right ahead.

God, I'd love to see the expression on your face when you read this stuff 10 years from now. Smile

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I call it stupid when you dredge up things that are corrected and no longer exist.

Stupid? Come on, you can find a better word than that. You're 19, for crying out loud. A man of your age should have a better vocabulary (not to mention critical thinking skills) than a 6th grader.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

You talk about all these things in the past. That's exactly what they are, past. Why dont you go sue Germany and try to destroy them. They were the Holocaust. PAST.

Again, your analogy is seriously flawed in that
1) Hitler is no longer in power and was destroyed.
2) The former Nazi leaders were held accountable (at the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal) for the past crimes they committed.

Seriously, dude. Think about your arguments a little before presenting them here.

Additionally, you might want to read over some of the debates we've had with other Family young people on here (such as this one: http://xchildrenofgod.xfamily.org/viewtopic.php?t=426). You might find that you're not really saying anything new or anything that we haven't considered yet.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

All these things you mention have been corrected and changed, or at least to the knowledge of the leadership you slander.

That's wonderful. I'm very happy about that. But please explain to me how it negates the fact that I or my peers experienced abuse and why it should prevent me from seeking justice for those abuses.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I wonder what would happen if all that was said on these places was taken, contexed, and then we sued you all for libel. We could make a tidy sum I think. Great for the tithe.

Oh, please do!! Please, let The Family sue me. It would make my day Laughing

. I would so welcome getting sued by The Family for speaking out about my abuse. Do it! Sue me.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

How many people have been kicked out for all these things you accuse us of currently doing? Every last one that has been found out. I dont know of anything going on where I am. How do you know so much and you havent been here for years? Or is it once again THE PAST?

How many have been kicked out? Not nearly enough. Most of the top leadership in The Family is, by their own admission, guilty of child abuse. They are quite content to keep quiet while letting people like you--who don't know about what they've done--defend them.

You're just a pawn to them.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Notice the whole stop part. When you run a race, follow an order, etc, you dont stop to question. You just do it. Here's a thought: Next time a police officer pulls you over for speeding, ask him why he chose you to pull over. Ask him why he didnt pull the next person over, seeing as you were going just as fast as him. Then ask him why he's even wearing a badge and uniform, seeing as he cant differentiate between two speeding cars. Killer recipe for a beating I guarantee. Most people dont take you questioning their authority too nicely, do they. Just the fact that they tried to explain it to you, and let you take your time to walk out the door, rather than boot you out, should be a signal.

I'm not sure what country you live in, but in most western countries you'd have every legal right to question authority. And should your questioning be met with a beating, you'd have every legal right to sue for retribution.

Seriously, dude. Pick some better analogies. All the ones you've picked so far put your leaders (and your perception of reality) in a very bad light.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

Yes, i could be bitter for those times I wasnt allowed to eat ice cream. Yes, I could hate my parents for the times they dragged me away from the TV screen. Yes, i could go and kill a random person I lived with because I, horror, got a spanking.

Is that what you think this is about? Missing a treat or movie? Getting a spanking or two?

Dude, try missing all meals for a week straight. Try being publicly humiliated for an innocent childish mistake. Try getting sexually molested every night at the age of 12. Try beatings so hard they've left lasting scars. Try a rape so brutal it left the woman unable to have kids. Try being separated from your parents at the age of 10 because they sent you off to a Victor Camp.

You would have every right to call us stupid if we were upset over minor incidents such as those you describe. But it's clear that you have absolutely no idea of what the actual accusations are.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I hate to see good come to naught because of the lies that are spread by people like: Sam Ajemian, James Penn, Daniel Roselle, Sunny James, etc.

Do me a favor: Quote one lie that they told. Just one. List exactly what they said and where they said it--reference and all.

It's easy to say "it's all lies" without getting into specifics. Claire Borowick seems to be good at that. How about you show us you actually know what you're talking about and list exactly what was said, and why it is a lie.

Somehow I get the feeling you haven't even read what James Penn or Sam Ajemian wrote, much less taken the time to read the lengthy Judgment of lord Justice Ward.

Dude, go do your homework before shooting your mouth off on here. Read it for yourself and come to your own conclusions rather than taking anyone's word for it.

Dying for this Cause wrote:

I wonder why you went through those Victor camps? I heard they only sent people who NEEDED IT.

My, My! Aren't you the little smug, self-righteous teenager today. Razz

How adorable.

I'll tell you why I went through the Victor Camp. It was because I had a natural talent for humor and enjoyed childish jokes and a good laugh at the age of 13. This crime was also known in The Family as "foolishness".

Now I ask you: Would you beat a 13 year old child with a 1" thick rod for being silly? Would you publicly humiliate them, make them fast and do hard manual labor because they are behaving in a manner that is perfectly normal for a child their age? Would you isolate them from their peers because their adolescent behavior was an evil influence on others?

Didn't think so. I knew you couldn't be that heartless.

xFamily
» General
» Fools

Read Topic
Reply

xFamily

Fools

Quick Links

My Account

able2know