Open Apology

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Anonymous
 
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2006 07:30 am
Day wrote:
Another theory could be that Max is just practicing some more on his new found "media persona," the announcer who cuts into the program in progress to bring us an important message. And his latest newsflash ...
max wrote:
I suppose [Max has] nothing original left to say, all been said before ad nausea.


“The God Delusionâ€
 
Day 1
 
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2006 11:31 am
Max, I’m surprised that you would recommend The God Delusion. Not having read it myself, but seen some reviews and read a few excerpts, Dawkins appears to make some very interesting observations condemning religious extremism. While I’m not inclined, myself, to throw God out on account of the actions of those who want to play god or use Him as the excuse for their criminal acts, Dawkins ideas and research are thought-provoking, nonetheless.

For example, Dawkins writes:

“…they characterize terrorists as motivated by pure ‘evil’. But they are not motivated by evil. However misguided we may think them, they are motivated, like the Christian murderers of abortion doctors, by what they perceive to be righteousness, faithfully pursuing what their religion tells them. They are not psychotic; they are religious idealists who, by their own lights, are rational. They perceive their acts to be good, not because of some warped personal idiosyncrasy, and not because they have been possessed by Satan, but because they have been brought up, from the cradle, to have total and unquestioning faith.â€
 
evanman
 
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2006 11:46 am
To want to join and/or promote TF/CoG! MMmm, wouldn't that make a person a "Religious Looney"?

Well, as the scripture says:
Quote:
Job 15:6 Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2006 12:46 pm
evanman wrote:
To want to join and/or promote TF/CoG! MMmm, wouldn't that make a person a "Religious Looney"?

Well, as the scripture says:
Quote:
Job 15:6 Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.



Having been a member you should know!
Why not give the book a read it might make you think, something that is sorely needed here.

Love & God Bless

Max aka Guest
 
Day 1
 
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2006 01:46 pm
Anonymous wrote:
Having been a member you should know!

Laughing See, that's the thing Max ... we do know.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2006 04:14 pm
S. Method, to clarify, i meant i would never go to court or be a part of bringing down the family because altho it would help to bring justice to some, it would be an injustice to others and in particular sadness to MY family who loves serving God as family missionaries. That is why i feel i can forgive things that happened to me (I'd rather not forget tho), because my nature is to forgive rather than to fight, if i know it would hurt the good people along with the bad.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 02:51 am
Cookie wrote:
S. Method, to clarify, i meant i would never go to court or be a part of bringing down the family because altho it would help to bring justice to some, it would be an injustice to others and in particular sadness to MY family who loves serving God as family missionaries. That is why i feel i can forgive things that happened to me (I'd rather not forget tho), because my nature is to forgive rather than to fight, if i know it would hurt the good people along with the bad.


What a wimp!
Not bother going to court if you have something to say!
Mind you the witness must be credible.
I suggest you read the book that I mentioned“The God Delusionâ€
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 02:53 am
Day wrote:
Max, I’m surprised that you would recommend The God Delusion. Not having read it myself, but seen some reviews and read a few excerpts, Dawkins appears to make some very interesting observations condemning religious extremism. While I’m not inclined, myself, to throw God out on account of the actions of those who want to play god or use Him as the excuse for their criminal acts, Dawkins ideas and research are thought-provoking, nonetheless.

For example, Dawkins writes:

“…they characterize terrorists as motivated by pure ‘evil’. But they are not motivated by evil. However misguided we may think them, they are motivated, like the Christian murderers of abortion doctors, by what they perceive to be righteousness, faithfully pursuing what their religion tells them. They are not psychotic; they are religious idealists who, by their own lights, are rational. They perceive their acts to be good, not because of some warped personal idiosyncrasy, and not because they have been possessed by Satan, but because they have been brought up, from the cradle, to have total and unquestioning faith.â€
 
Acheick
 
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 08:17 am
Cookie wrote:
S. Method, to clarify, i meant i would never go to court or be a part of bringing down the family because altho it would help to bring justice to some, it would be an injustice to others and in particular sadness to MY family who loves serving God as family missionaries. That is why i feel i can forgive things that happened to me (I'd rather not forget tho), because my nature is to forgive rather than to fight, if i know it would hurt the good people along with the bad.


Cookie - I think forgiveness is a very important attribute. Yet, we cannot forget justice when we practice forgiveness. The fact that TF breaks, laws, ethics, morals, tears apart families, damages little children, this cannot go unnoticed by forgiveness. Again, I think your family could very well continue serving God as missionaries without the trap of TF hung around their necks. In the end, it would be the best thing for them. It might be hard in the beginning, as any change is, but I'm sure they are up for it. You'd be surprised at the resilience of human nature.
 
max 1
 
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 09:59 am
Acheick wrote:
Cookie wrote:
S. Method, to clarify, i meant i would never go to court or be a part of bringing down the family because altho it would help to bring justice to some, it would be an injustice to others and in particular sadness to MY family who loves serving God as family missionaries. That is why i feel i can forgive things that happened to me (I'd rather not forget tho), because my nature is to forgive rather than to fight, if i know it would hurt the good people along with the bad.


Cookie - I think forgiveness is a very important attribute. Yet, we cannot forget justice when we practice forgiveness. The fact that TF breaks, laws, ethics, morals, tears apart families, damages little children, this cannot go unnoticed by forgiveness. Again, I think your family could very well continue serving God as missionaries without the trap of TF hung around their necks. In the end, it would be the best thing for them. It might be hard in the beginning, as any change is, but I'm sure they are up for it. You'd be surprised at the resilience of human nature.



Very well said and phrased.
I was trying to say the same thing, but I am not as subtle.
Good advice.

Love & God Bless

Max
 
Day 1
 
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 10:10 am
Cookie wrote:
S. Method, to clarify, i meant i would never go to court or be a part of bringing down the family because altho it would help to bring justice to some, it would be an injustice to others and in particular sadness to MY family who loves serving God as family missionaries. That is why i feel i can forgive things that happened to me (I'd rather not forget tho), because my nature is to forgive rather than to fight, if i know it would hurt the good people along with the bad.


Cookie, the love you have for your family that is so evident in your postings, is touching and a wonderful tribute to both you and them. As you have rightly indicated previously, how and whether one serves God is one's own decision to determine. We do have that right. However, since many of TF’s primary/core teachings promote and condone predatory, negligent and criminal behavior, wouldn’t you say that sort of “mindsetâ€
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2006 01:13 pm
Day, you have good points. i agree with not condoning criminals actions or of them being a part of the family, even if they have changed.

It's been a lonely road recovering from sexual and verbal abuse, something i went thru more than my share. it still makes me feel dirty and strange, it makes me hide more than i should, it makes me feel like somehow i'll never really fit in anywhere, that people will think it's my fault, it makes me wary of love, it took me so long to truly open up to my boyfriend, it's something that sticks with you and discourages you and makes you lose faith in the human spirit. I wholeheartedly disapprove of the actions that brought about these feelings. i am never completely comforted because there has been no justice, i never truly trust those who say they love me but who try to get something from me sexually, becuase i just don't trust blindly anymore, but although i would like to see these people reap the things they sowed, taking them down would not be my style unless i felt my family was in danger from those people, but as far as i know my own family is living with people they love and work well with.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2006 03:22 pm
question
Cookie wrote:
as far as i know my own family is living with people they love and work well with.


So how long do you think that will last? When I was in the Family I had no control over what crowd of people I had to live, work, eat, have devotions, sleep with. I guess the charter changes some things, but can't it be changed and revoked by the top leaders Zerby and Queen Peter?
 
Acheick
 
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2006 04:41 pm
Re: question
just me wrote:
Cookie wrote:
as far as i know my own family is living with people they love and work well with.


So how long do you think that will last? When I was in the Family I had no control over what crowd of people I had to live, work, eat, have devotions, sleep with. I guess the charter changes some things, but can't it be changed and revoked by the top leaders Zerby and Queen Peter?


I know what you mean, too. This is what my daughter would tell me. "Well, right now I'm with good people and have plenty of help." So I told her, what are you going to do when that changes? She had no answer. It can't possibly stay that way. The upper leadership has a way of making sure happy situations get dissipated or else happy members may decide they don't need them. So they'll move everyone around, and/or change the home size, change the vision, i.e. every one go mobile, change the country, ie., now you need to go to slovanika, etc., etc. You know it's going to happen sooner or later.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2006 04:42 pm
If i was ever under the impression they lived in a home where they seemed unhappy i would raise hell Evil or Very Mad . I know my family well enough to know. I've let them know how i feel about the family. what they do with that is up to them. I've done my bit. I've left and have cut contact with most family members, except the ones who have been reasonable . I've also extended a welcome to any of my family who may someday want an out. I'll help them however they want me to help them.

Someone has to want to change or to see something besides what's written in the GN's to ever snap out of it. If you try force them, they'll accuse you of persecuting them for religious reasons, which is nuts, but the fact is, that doesn't help them, it only makes them more bitter towards you, more fanatical, more set in their views. Confused 8)
 
Day 1
 
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2006 08:56 pm
Cookie wrote:
I've let them know how i feel about the family. what they do with that is up to them. ... I've also extended a welcome to any of my family who may someday want an out. I'll help them however they want me to help them.

Having been able to speak your peace to your family, that in itself should resonate in their minds; your words tucked away there for future reference, possibilities to ponder. Whether or not they attribute your departure to "apostate" influences or some perceived weakness of faith on your part, your words and actions stand for themselves, undeniably imprinted in their minds. And for you to offer your family help should they decide to leave TF, may be just the encouragement and option they need when the truth of the matter hits home for them. Smile
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2006 01:11 pm
I am hoping just that. Very Happy
 
 

 
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