Jesus Camp, Anybody?

[quote="Piram
Why donÂ´t you have a nice chat with max? IÂ´m sure heÂ´ll be glad to keep you company.[/quote]

What's that supposed to mean, Piram??? Because I have a different perspective to offer you consider me lower than you? I don't get it. But fine, I guess we just can't communicate here, apparently. Buh-bye.

Indian Joe wrote:

The thing that bothered me about the video wasn't that it was of a lot of very dedicated adults engaging in these activities of their own free will. The people in the video were children.

It is difficult to know if they have any other choice, or what the result would be if they didn't want to participate in these evangelical activites. Can they just walk out of Jesus Camp? If they do, where do they go? If they go home, how would the parents react? Would they be considered evil for that?

I realize it reads a lot into it, but that was my reaction to it.

I agree with you, Joseph. It would be good to know those things. It certainly isn't clear from that video.

Acheick wrote:

I agree with you, Joseph. It would be good to know those things. It certainly isn't clear from that video.

I went to a bible camp up at Big Bear Lake as a kid and I remember really liking it. In fact, I had to beg my parents to pay for it every summer. I would come back home all on fire and witnessing. If anything, my parents found it annoying, and hoped I would grow out of it.

I don't remember anything quite as intense happening there as I saw in the video.

My youngest daughter is out of the church school and in public school now. When she was going to the church school, they used to have them to that same salute to the Christian flag that we saw in the video. But, the kids there were kind of mouthing the words, same as when most kids say the regular pledge to the US Flag. The kids in the video were kind of well.. into it.

I can certainly understand that people raised in a cult would find themselves upset by watching that video. I'm not sure who produced it or why. Watching that kid flipping around on the ground like he was having seizure didn't inspire me to send my kid to the camp. But, many of the commercials I see today on regular TV make me wonder what they are selling, and why I would ever want to buy that product. If the video was made with the intention of scaring the heck out of people a little left of Pentecostal, it probably did its job.

Quote:

[quote="Indian Joe If the video was made with the intention of scaring the heck out of people a little left of Pentecostal, it probably did its job.

[/quote]

LOL - no kidding. Judging by the mullet (found the correct spelling), I'm betting these are people in flyover country somewhere, a little bit behind times, etc. Maybe like "yuk-yuk" types and in the bible belt where that sort of behavior is normal. I never liked the whole Pentecostal thing of being "slain in the spirit" and crying and thinking you have to be emotional to "feel" the spirit of God. It spooked me. But they have been doing that for a long, long time.

Acheick wrote:

Quote:
[quote="Indian Joe If the video was made with the intention of scaring the heck out of people a little left of Pentecostal, it probably did its job.

LOL - no kidding. Judging by the mullet (found the correct spelling), I'm betting these are people in flyover country somewhere, a little bit behind times, etc. Maybe like "yuk-yuk" types and in the bible belt where that sort of behavior is normal. I never liked the whole Pentecostal thing of being "slain in the spirit" and crying and thinking you have to be emotional to "feel" the spirit of God. It spooked me. But they have been doing that for a long, long time.[/quote]

I have no intentions of joining the mutual appreciation society, but again I take my hat off to you, well said, especially the flyovers!
I have not seen the video but from what you say I reckon I do not want to.
Well said and good on you.
Credit where credits due.

Love & God Bless

Max aka Guest

Anonymous wrote:

Acheick wrote:
Quote:
[quote="Indian Joe If the video was made with the intention of scaring the heck out of people a little left of Pentecostal, it probably did its job.

LOL - no kidding. Judging by the mullet (found the correct spelling), I'm betting these are people in flyover country somewhere, a little bit behind times, etc. Maybe like "yuk-yuk" types and in the bible belt where that sort of behavior is normal. I never liked the whole Pentecostal thing of being "slain in the spirit" and crying and thinking you have to be emotional to "feel" the spirit of God. It spooked me. But they have been doing that for a long, long time.

I have no intentions of joining the mutual appreciation society, but again I take my hat off to you, well said, especially the flyovers!
I have not seen the video but from what you say I reckon I do not want to.
Well said and good on you.
Credit where credits due.

Love & God Bless

Max aka Guest[/quote]

You're one strange dude, Max. I don't know what your trip is, but I hope you find happiness somehow.

How about this kind of school?
http://www.teachkidspeace.com/backToSchoolFlash.php

Acheick wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Acheick wrote:
Quote:
[quote="Indian Joe If the video was made with the intention of scaring the heck out of people a little left of Pentecostal, it probably did its job.

LOL - no kidding. Judging by the mullet (found the correct spelling), I'm betting these are people in flyover country somewhere, a little bit behind times, etc. Maybe like "yuk-yuk" types and in the bible belt where that sort of behavior is normal. I never liked the whole Pentecostal thing of being "slain in the spirit" and crying and thinking you have to be emotional to "feel" the spirit of God. It spooked me. But they have been doing that for a long, long time.

I have no intentions of joining the mutual appreciation society, but again I take my hat off to you, well said, especially the flyovers!
I have not seen the video but from what you say I reckon I do not want to.
Well said and good on you.
Credit where credits due.

Love & God Bless

Max aka Guest

You're one strange dude, Max. I don't know what your trip is, but I hope you find happiness somehow.[/quote]

Dear Acheick
That is very intuitive of you.
Iâ€™m not sure how you worked it out?, but again I have to give you credit.
Iâ€™m also not sure what my (trip) is but whilst driving my car I was listening to the song â€œMan Of The Worldâ€

To whoever may be interested:

Thanks for your attention. If you wish, you may pm me, or alternatively, if my e-mail is visible, or you have it already, you may email me.

If you look at my posts, I have never made a blanket condemnation (of every member) of TF -- as with many other groups, there are leaders and minions, oppressors and oppressed. As I have stated clearly, blanket condemnations (of any group) are not my style. But, I reiterate: I believe in tolerancy, but tolerancy of intolerancy is where I draw the line.

Best of luck.

Max, you were talking about Fleetwood Mac songs, so getting back to that subject, since you weren't in TF, maybe you don't know this yet, but there was a series that came out in Family publications when i was a young teen that was written by Jeremy Spencer, and in it, he really goes on and on about the witchiness of Fleetwood Mac Songs such as Black Magic Woman, etc, and how they were inspired by the dark side of the spirit world. Also, about Peter Green, Jeremy says he was literally insane, and was scratching around the garden on all fours, thinking he was an animal. Jeremy did NOT have good things to say about the F.W.M. band.

He may have rekindled his relationship with them, but as far as listening to their music, it's still not permitted in the CM family. Crying or Very sad

Cookie wrote:

Max, you were talking about Fleetwood Mac songs, so getting back to that subject, since you weren't in TF, maybe you don't know this yet, but there was a series that came out in Family publications when i was a young teen that was written by Jeremy Spencer, and in it, he really goes on and on about the witchiness of Fleetwood Mac Songs such as Black Magic Woman, etc, and how they were inspired by the dark side of the spirit world. Also, about Peter Green, Jeremy says he was literally insane, and was scratching around the garden on all fours, thinking he was an animal. Jeremy did NOT have good things to say about the F.W.M. band.

He may have rekindled his relationship with them, but as far as listening to their music, it's still not permitted in the CM family.

I presume you are referring to a series by â€œAurora Publicationsâ€

Another version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM

Worshiping Bush? Come on!

Max wrote:

I presume you are referring to a series by â€œAurora Publicationsâ€

The video
As disturbing as that video is, the enculturation done in that setting is probably a lot more transient in its effects than the sorts of things that were done to you guys- ex FM'ers. Most of those kids will have a plethora of cultural exposure to round out their worldviews; tv, movies and music, not to mention public school.

I'm fundamentalist myself but I don't care for this group's approach- I don't believe in internal change through external social coercion. I don't think it works in the long run. I've seen kids bond and share their hearts in settings where we were doing work in the community. But they did that partially because they were expected to do it in a particular situation. In a very mainstream denomination, the group was still refered to as an "army". And boy, we gave great credit to these camp/workretreats as a means of changing lives or deepening calls, but, the reality of the situation was that any artificially constructed situation is only going to have as much of an effect as its lifespan will allow. The work retreat was another "something to do" during the summer, and it only took a few summers until I realized that the work we were doing for folks was often shoddy and incomplete when it was time for us to head back home.

I think that even if we think we are "religious", very little of what we do is actually of, or for God. We give ourselves too much credit, I think. The human spirit is hopefully more resilient than the machinations of the salvation squad in the video. Unfortunately, these folks may end up achieving the opposite of what they intended. And depending on your point of view, that may be either a good or a bad thing.

a way out there question from a novice
Hey- just found out about "the family" and David Berg

I was surprized about the website http://www.thefamily.org at how clean it looks as contrasted to the

disgusting perversions of David Bergs ideas. I hate to condemn a whole group of people-

My dh friend from high school showed up at our door and he has traveled the world with the family for 35 years. As my dh said of the photos the friend showed us " They all looked so happy and good'"

My dh is a new age influenced, jewish by birth liberal - while I am a born again believer in love with Jesus big time. I am just wondering what exactly to say to dh about the Children of God/ the family to set them apart from the Body of Christ.

Their website at thefamily.org is very deceptive in that much of it is based on the bible.

Could thefamily have tossed aside their evil beginnings- David Berg- and become a Christian organization?

I know that is a way out there question but I am just wondering and curious.....

The ideas of Berg are too deeply entrenched in the foundational teachings of the group for them to ever become a legitimate christian organisation.

They'll have to reject; the practice of "sharing" (sleeping around and swapping partners), Spirit Guides, Demonology (demons being behind everything that goes wrong, and any criticism of CoG/TF), Berg being the David of Old Testament prophecies (ie Ezekiel 34), having the type of leadership structure they have which is from the top down (Nicolaitanism), Jesus having VD and sexual relations with His female followers, their version of the Gospel where salvation is merely a matter of repeating a prayer, their economic system where having all things in common means surrendering everything to the group and no fair distribution is made to every one.

I could go on, but this list would be inexhaustive.

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