Hello, and a question

  1. Philosophy Forum
  2. » New Member Introductions
  3. » Hello, and a question

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

oftenly
 
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 11:11 pm
Hello, People. I like to believe I have some interesting ideas, and I am hoping to be pointed in the right direction so that I might explore them further. This forum is dense, and I'm afraid I'll be lost without some kind guidance.

Allow me to pose something I've been mulling over the last few days. Could I possibly get some advice on what deeper area of the forum I could explore this idea?

A few years ago I was living with my aunt and uncle in New Jersey. I had recently dropped out of college and was planning on joining the Air Force with no better ideas in mind. I wasn't very enthusiastic about living there and eventually left (without joining the Air Force). Maybe I was immature and irresponsible, who knows. My aunt said to me shortly before I left that I was "just existing", which I guess was a comment on my life's lack of progress on a day-to-day basis.

I didn't think much of it at the time, and I probably rationalized the comment away. Fast forward to today: I'm working and going to school full time, living in my own apartment with two cats, and am overall in a much better place than I was back then. However (of course there's a "however"), sometimes I do feel as though I'm "just existing". There are entire months that go by without any real advancement in my life, and while I don't really feel bad about it, per se, I still feel as though I should feel bad about it.

I've wondered lately if this may be due to some kind of deep-rooted philosophical belief that goes something like this:

The universe is vast, but more than that, it's neutral. Days and weeks and months and seasons and years come and go with no real consequence. Human experience, with all its emotion and understanding and desire, is exactly that - human - and fundamentally separate from the operations of our physical world. For example, in a couple billion years or so, the Sun is expected to lose power, expand, and consume earth. While a human may consider that event pretty close to the ultimate tragedy, the universe doesn't care; feelings of fear and hopelessness in this regard don't represent the true way of things.

With this in mind, wouldn't "just existing" be an almost spiritual exercise?

I've always considered myself somewhat of a realist in this way, and I find the idea curious. I guess it can be argued that I have a rather grim outlook on life, but the truth is I only get depressed about my perceived lack of "velocity", as it were, when I convince myself that it's something worth being depressed about. I will admit, however, that I find myself somewhat anxious and scared when pondering these things, and I believe that's because I'm not sure whether I might be misleading myself.

That's why I came here, in a general sense. I have a multitude of these strange concepts bubbling inside my skull, and I think I could find some insight and perhaps peace of mind if I knew where to explore them.

Sorry for the long-winded and boring introduction, and thanks in advance.

oftenly
 
jgweed
 
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 09:08 am
@oftenly,
Nietzsche admonishes his readers, "Become who you are." Figuring out who you really are can take differing amounts of one's life depending on the person, and often one sees oneself as "treading water" until a moment of seemingly sudden insight, after which the leap's preparatory nature becomes clear.
A very warm welcome to the PhilosophyForum!
Regards,
John
 
mysterystar
 
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 01:02 pm
@oftenly,
I am new here too as of yesterday. I would like to follow that thread. I am going to embed an email I was going to send to my professor but have not been brave enough too.
I would like to know if you feel it is a similar idea? I think the idea of neutrality compliments what I am describing. My idea was being applied to religion though.

...To me, the antithesis of my thesis is kind of a laser empirical description of a religious option that is not being labeled by mainstream society.
I apologize for taking so much of your time and not being able to write more clearly. Please let me clarify this idea a little more really quickly. If one feels he does not have the capacity of mind, or heart, or heritage, or society, or may be even if one might be taught to believe the above doubt, could one choose to only experience religion vicarously? How many people only experience religion through the observance of others? Could this be an alternative to agnostism, atheism, and theism?
Is this stance as common as I think it is? Has it been labeled? Can we call it "objectivism"
I know the catholic church believes in mediation but on a more abstract level is this "objectivism" an effective descriptor and choice that deserves to be promoted?
I could write a couple of pages on the topic if you are interested.
Hopefully, this different take on the conclusion motivates your thinking and that I was able to contribute an idea under your leadership and you have happy holidays.
 
jgweed
 
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 04:34 pm
@oftenly,
Mysterystar---Unfortunately, "objectivism" is already taken by Ayn Rand, but I am sure your creative mind can find another descriptive word. I suggest you begin a thread in the Philosophy of Religion Forum describing this option and asking your questions.

Oftenly---it might be best to continue this discussion in the "General Discussion" Forum, if you would care to start a thread there.

Since this thread is more of a welcoming and introducing yourself area, most Members do not frequent it, and you will be more likely to have an authentic discussion in one of the other forums.
Regards to you both,
John
 
nameless
 
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 04:59 pm
@oftenly,
oftenly;36304 wrote:
Hello, People.

Hello. Welcome.

Quote:
My aunt said to me shortly before I left that I was "just existing", which I guess was a comment on my life's lack of progress on a day-to-day basis.

A feature of a capitalist technocratic mindset. Your 'value' (to 'society') is in what you 'produce' for the material advancement of all.

Quote:
There are entire months that go by without any real advancement in my life, and while I don't really feel bad about it, per se, I still feel as though I should feel bad about it.

You are supposed to feel guilty for not fulfilling the expectations of the hive.
There are times to 'do', and there are (more importantly) times to 'be', ignorantly dismissed and devalued in dying capitalist materialist cultures.

Quote:
Human experience, with all its emotion and understanding and desire, is exactly that - human - and fundamentally separate from the operations of our physical world.

No no no!! Not seperate from, but a feature of the omniverse as it is at the moment! Every 'feeling', every 'thought', every 'memory', every 'concept' every perception everything that you can say or conceive is a feature of the tapestry of the universe/existence at the moment of observation (whether observing a thought or a sun or a galaxy). There is no 'seperations' but in appearance to particular Perspectives. The entire and complete universe can be 'defined', at the moment of 'dewfinition', Now!, as the sum total of all Perspectives!

Quote:
For example, in a couple billion years or so, the Sun is expected to lose power, expand, and consume earth. While a human may consider that event pretty close to the ultimate tragedy, the universe doesn't care; feelings of fear and hopelessness in this regard don't represent the true way of things.

There need to be 'thoughts' to have 'care'.
There needs to be a functioning brain, in the vicinity, for there to be 'thoughts'.
But where there are such, they remain features of the complete universe of the moment.

Quote:
With this in mind, wouldn't "just existing" be an almost spiritual exercise?

I'd dump the (ignorant) 'just' and you are speaking of Zen, of a meditational state of 'being'.

Quote:
but the truth is I only get depressed about my perceived lack of "velocity", as it were, when I convince myself that it's something worth being depressed about. I will admit, however, that I find myself somewhat anxious and scared when pondering these things, and I believe that's because I'm not sure whether I might be misleading myself.

You have bought into the lie! The Matrix has you! Free your mind! Shed the materialist shackles!
Ok, a bit dramatic and hyperbolic, but not much, and the point remains...

Peace
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 08:36 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed wrote:
Mysterystar---Unfortunately, "objectivism" is already taken by Ayn Rand, but I am sure your creative mind can find another descriptive word.


The funny thing is that Ayn Rand wanted to call her philosophy existentialism but that term was already taken by a school of thought she despised.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 09:24 am
@oftenly,
Hi Oftenly,

oftenly wrote:
My aunt said to me shortly before I left that I was "just existing", which I guess was a comment on my life's lack of progress on a day-to-day basis.

... Fast forward to today: I'm working and going to school full time, living in my own apartment with two cats, and am overall in a much better place than I was back then. However (of course there's a "however"), sometimes I do feel as though I'm "just existing". There are entire months that go by without any real advancement in my life, and while I don't really feel bad about it, per se, I still feel as though I should feel bad about it.


Well, the fact that you're aware of this supposed-requirement speaks well of your introspection. I'd wager that the vast majority of us caught up in hegemony's notion of "Life Progression" don't even realize it. I'd even go so far as to say that because of this recognition, you've more potential for really living life than most.

Typical/Popular/Traditional Materialistic Notions of Success: These are deeply ingrained into everyone; each according to the culture in which they live. For the culture in which I live: Make lots of Money! Run your own Company! Run for Office! Be a Star! Have a Winter Home on the beach and by all means - diversify that portfolio!...my take on it is that this, as a criteria for success in life is horse-hockey.

Your life is your own and no one has the right to make value judgments based on their idea of success. Perhaps you were "just existing" in your Aunt's eyes; So what? I think it more likely that by what she thought important for you at the time that this is what was going on. I have no idea of the specifics of your outlook (or your Aunt's, for that matter) but as a parent I think I can understand where she's coming from. That's where the Flip Side of the Coin comes in.

In this material world, filled with all its abject, dank and subhuman gluttony, we live and die by money - quite literally, as it seems you've found out. But I think a lot of us make the mistake that The Fulfilled Life = The Financially-Successful Life. What others perceive as "Just Existing" may be what I want to do; their perception of this condition does not give them license to judge.

oftenly wrote:
The universe is vast, but more than that, it's neutral. Days and weeks and months and seasons and years come and go with no real consequence... the ultimate tragedy, the universe doesn't care..

... while I'd contend that we are part of the physical universe; part and parcel, one in the same - just a component of what all just is, I'd certainly agree that its important to realize that we live in an Indifferent World; it neither hates nor loves us.

oftenly wrote:
... but the truth is I only get depressed about my perceived lack of "velocity", as it were, when I convince myself that it's something worth being depressed about. I will admit, however, that I find myself somewhat anxious and scared when pondering these things, and I believe that's because I'm not sure whether I might be misleading myself.

You may be; who knows. I think to some greater or lesser extent, we all are. But what I want to suggest is that you're "wanting" something that gives that sense of satisfaction. "Velocity", as in progress or satisfaction? It all depends; each nets a myriad of potential replies based on the context. In any case, I'd like to offer this: The Key to Happiness in this life is becoming and remaining inspired. Finding what your "inspiration" is, is the toughest part. It could be religion, the company of others, family, philosophy or tree-trimming. Call it the Search for Self; chances are the answer to that satisfaction or meaning is already inside you... one's just gotta find it.

Hoping this helps...

 
teacup
 
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 01:50 am
@oftenly,
while i have many thoughts on the matter i thought id offer something real quick (i should be in bed, this place is addicting)

how do you define 'advancement'? every day is an achievement. every moment can be treated as spiritual and meaningful with the right perspective.

also, having a hobby helps. or taking on a project. or teaching yourself. not that i say you 'should' be advancing all the time, but sometimes taking part in some small personal advancement helps brighten the days. to me, that means reading as much as possible. i see every book i finish as an accomplishment. i am more knowledgeable and thus i am advancing from my own perspective. Smile
 
 

 
  1. Philosophy Forum
  2. » New Member Introductions
  3. » Hello, and a question
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.44 seconds on 12/21/2024 at 11:23:21