How could our consciousness not be "wrapped up in the fabric of reality"?

The thing that should be taken into account with Heraclitus is that he was above all things a theoretician of change. Many times over in what fragments we have, Heraclitus exemplifies the fact that everything alters and changes. If you have ever heard the adage, "you never step in the same river twice," that's an original Heraclitian phrase.

But I suppose if you look at the broad philosophy of Heraclitus, the fundamental thing to take away is his metaphysical conception of the world/universe. To Heraclitus, there is no such thing as "stuff" in the universe? so there is nothing permanent, anchored down to the world in constant form. Heraclitus is solely concerned with a "principle of change" like we would think of a constant theory in physics, like Brownian motion but applied to everything in general. So when you think Heraclitus, think "flux"? like when you think of Democritus, you think "atomism."

So basically, the world/universe to Heraclitus works something like this; the key board that you are typing on exists in a world of flux, where the substantial components that make up the key board (think atoms, geometry, etc.) come in and out of existence. And though the components of the key board can come in and out of existence, the principle of change, the flux, is the only constant.

But the Heraclitian theory ran into redundancy issues even during Heraclitus' own life time. Cratylus for example, a disciple of Heraclitus went reductio ad absurdum and posited that not only can one never step in the same river twice? but not even step in the same river once. In an ironic twist, he essentially posited that the principle of change was subject to change. LOL!

That being said, I think you have a good idea about Heraclitian principle of change being somewhat close to quantum mechanics. The only thing I would have to say on the subject is that where quantum mechanics is essentially based on the discrete probabilities of atomistic minutia, there is still an underlying theory of conservation (that nothing can be created nor destroyed, only change, etc.) which runs contrary Heraclitus? who throws the law of conservation out the window by saying that things can come in and out of existence? the only thing that remains constant in the world/universe is the theory itself.

I'm curious to know more about your idea though, especially on phenomenology, because you have a good concept.

Heraclitus is quoted as saying "the real constitution of things hides itself (Kirk, 211), and that the cause of beings is strife or war (polemos) between opposites,and "all things are in motion" despite appearance, and appears to reject monistic explanations held by his predecessors, yet seems to prefer fire over the others.

Kirk and Raven make the point that his central discovery appears to be "that natural changes of all kinds are regular and balanced, and that the cause of this balance is fire" or perhaps logos or true connexion of things.

Unfortunately, we do not have sufficient evidence, even second-hand, to understand how he reconciled a dynamic view of the world with what appears to be his first principle.

Hi,

Heraclitus is one of my favorites. I blog about him along with Laozi (Lao Tzu), and Itzhak Bentov.

I too see many connections between Heraclitus and Quantum Physics. Of particular interest here would be the similarities of Heraclitus constant changing, folded world with David Bohm's Wholeness and Implicate Order interpretation of Quantum Theory.

While the fragments of Heraclitus are limited, they provide enough insight to draw parallels to Eastern Philosophy, in particular Daoism, and by combining all elements, one can create quite an interesting description of life and the universe.

Rich

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------



Hi,

Thanks for your exposition. I enjoyed reading it.

I wanted to point out that there are numerous interpretations of what is the meaning of quanta creation and annihilation, and depending upon how you look at it, it Quantum Physics may still fully fit into Heraclitus' world.

Quantum interpretations are numerous, and always being debated - just as Philosophical theories. It is interesting, however, looking at the parallels between Heraclitus, Daoism, and Quantum Physics, as many have.

Rich

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------



Hi,

Just to give you my take on Heraclitus:

1) "It hides itself": This is for me quite amusing and enlightening. I first came across this thought, while reading Itzhak Bentov's A Brief Tour of Higher Consciousness, where he posits the possibility, that Life is a Game of Hide and Seek, put together for the enjoyment and amusement of itself. :-)

2) "War": While many interpret Heraclitus as using war as the basis for movement, I prefer to use the term "conflict". That is, the swirling movement from one side to another, and around again. Very similar to the circular movement from Yin and Yang and back again of Daoism.

3) "Motion": This is the primary idea. That everything is constantly changing. Ditto for Daoism.

In so far as reconciling everything, the Logos (or Dao) can be swirling withing itself. Such motion is all around in nature. Starting from nothing, it begins to swirl, creating greater and greater spirals. Some spirals condense and become matter. Other stay less dense and remain energetic. All kinds of movements and spirals. All of this, very similar to Doaism, and even Quantum Physics.

Rich
Rich

Could you explain what you mean by consciousness being wrapped up in the fabric of reality?

Obvious, but excellent question. But you have to admit, it sounds good.

If our consciousness were not wrapped up in the fabric of reality there could be no natural laws or intelligible forms in nature and the Cosmos would be a meaningless thing to speak of.

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Well said. And can we not add that "consciousness" itself is also one of these intelligible forms? And that form is also a form?

Each aspect of Cosmos is one indivisible being of which phenomena and souls are wrapped into so that recursions and regresses terminate in an ultimate or absolute unified form.


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