To the Taoists...

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Dave Allen
 
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2009 01:50 pm
@Tramontana,
Tramontana wrote:
I think that some of this stories are parable.Is the parable philosphically robust? I think yes,but i see waht you mean. "Encumbering"...yes i agree with you that Taoism is a relatively light encumbering than other traditions.И
By the way folk religious taoism isn't so light encumbering as far as i know.
Sure, I think parables work better than many of the more miraculous tales as they are "honest fictions". I respect some of the parables a lot, in particular the one of the Good Samaritan.

A parable that seems very like Taoism is that of the Lily of the Field. I have seen some critiques pointing out that humans do have to toil in order to live - they can't just get energy as plants do. This may be a picayune and pedantic point - but I also think it is why Lao Tse and Chuang Tzu are perhaps better sages than Jesus Christ - the parables are of a different quality. There is a flexibility there that is absent from other faiths, as well as a more realist stance.

Chuang-Tsu, with his butterfly parable, even seems to have anticipated Cartesian doubt by nearly 2,000 years, which I think is hugely impressive.

I am sure a close examination of the folk believes and rituals surrounding Taoism will reveal an awful lot of bewildering things that are just as offputting as those of any other orthodoxy - I haven't really looked into Taoism in practice as much as sought to learn about the general worldview.

Quote:
Yes.I think Abramic traditions value words more than Taoism and other eastern traditions.Maybe this huge holy books full of words of god and missionary work dispose to it.

I think so - I get an impression of very confused works that advocate or ban certain things in certain places, and other things in others, and even the opposite things in others - and I simply don't see how this can be a route to universal truth. If a book is the word of God - why is it so unclear and inconsistent and why does it require reformation and reinterpretation and so on? Why would a god communicate unclearly unless he wanted to confuse people?

Tao - with its emphasis on action (or inaction) relative to situation - seems to have the heart of the matter.
 
Tramontana
 
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2009 02:27 pm
@Dave Allen,
I totally agree with you.And have nothing else to say except for...about this
Dave Allen;57445 wrote:
Chuang-Tsu, with his butterfly parable, even seems to have anticipated Cartesian doubt by nearly 2,000 years, which I think is hugely impressive.


About "anicipate".I see what you mean,but i want to add that every philosopher(better everyone)must have this Chuang-Tzu-Cartesian doubt once.To understand or feel it themselves.Maybe it's one of starts of the philosophy.I mean that even now when we know some history we have to do all this philophical work ourselves,because no one do it instead of us.But it is not mean that study history of philosophy useless.I just try to say that even after that study we must not forget about brain(or soul,if you please)work.

And we did some work here,didn't we? Smile

Dave Allen;57445 wrote:
Tao - with its emphasis on action (or inaction) relative to situation - seems to have the heart of the matter.
 
Dave Allen
 
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2009 10:04 am
@Tramontana,
Tramontana wrote:
About "anicipate".I see what you mean,but i want to add that every philosopher(better everyone)must have this Chuang-Tzu-Cartesian doubt once.To understand or feel it themselves.Maybe it's one of starts of the philosophy.
Sure, I think it has a lot in common with Socrates' "Only those who know they are ignorant can be wise." In order to have an open mind one must be ready to admit one could be mistaken.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 04:43 am
@Dave Allen,
The other thing to consider is that there is enormous variation in the spectrum of religious and cultural myths and traditions, which is all well and good. People understand things on various levels - not everyone is capable of the subtelty of thought which marks the Taoist tradition. In Indian thought there is a wide variety of religious thought from riotous polytheism to the most subtle esotericism. So other traditions might be more legalistic, or ritualistic, and so on, which does not necessarily invalidate them - all part of 'life's rich tapestry' so to speak (although of course one's view might be different if one has suffered at the hands of the Church).
 
Dave Allen
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 08:09 am
@Dave Allen,
Sure, but for every individual some things will be of more value than others, and it's fun to try and figure out why.
 
hammersklavier
 
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 01:30 pm
@Dave Allen,
Well, let's go back to the primary source, shall we?

Tao Te Ching 25 wrote:

There was something formless and perfect
before the universe was born.
It is serene. Empty.
Solitary. Unchanging.
Infinite. Eternally present.
It is the mother of the universe.
For lack of a better name,
I call it the Tao.

It flows through all things,
inside and outside, and returns
to the origin of all things.

The Tao is great.
The universe is great.
Earth is great.
Man is great.
These are the four great powers.

Man follows the earth.
The earth follows the universe.
The universe follows the Tao.
The Tao follows only itself.

Translated by Stephen Mitchell
 
Solace
 
Reply Sun 13 Sep, 2009 09:53 am
@hammersklavier,
I don't really have anything to add to this thread, but I would like to say thanks to all those who participated for an enjoyable read.
 
 

 
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