Isaiah 42:6

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Deckard
 
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 03:57 am
As a Goy, I cannot help but take offense to the holier than thou mindset that can be found in verses like Isaiah 42:6

Quote:
6 "I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,


Which is echoed in the New Testament:

Quote:
Acts 13:47
For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.


Are we to believe that the Hebrew light shines so much brighter than the light of the Lakotas, the Zulus, the Celts, the Tibetans, the Greeks et cetra et cetera? These verses and others like them are really no more than a reflection of the universal tendency that can be found in any tribal religion; they are statements of a tribes unifying belief in their exceptionally divine status when compared with those others who are merely human all to human.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 03:07 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;160749 wrote:
As a Goy, I cannot help but take offense to the holier than thou mindset that can be found in verses like Isaiah 42:6



Which is echoed in the New Testament:



Are we to believe that the Hebrew light shines so much brighter than the light of the Lakotas, the Zulus, the Celts, the Tibetans, the Greeks et cetra et cetera? These verses and others like them are really no more than a reflection of the universal tendency that can be found in any tribal religion; they are statements of a tribes unifying belief in their exceptionally divine status when compared with those others who are merely human all to human.

It might be true if anyone could talk the jews into following their own religion...If they did that they wouldn't need a light, because I would shine one on them... Even the ones who follow the form miss the function...Consider the story of the Good Samaritan.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 06:58 pm
@Fido,
Of course it is not the Hebrew people as a race that I find offensive just some of the Hebrew scriptures. I find some facets of the religion offensive. I have no problem with the race. I think that is a distinction worth making. But of course the two are related. The temptation for a Jewish person to actually believe themselves to be the chosen race must be very strong. I don't think you can adhere to the Jewish faith without believing it. It's another case of religion effing the world up. I find it much more difficult to respect religions with a strong racial component than otherwise. Anyway, that's my complaint. There's not much more to say about it I suppose.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 07:32 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;161027 wrote:
Of course it is not the Hebrew people as a race that I find offensive just some of the Hebrew scriptures. I find some facets of the religion offensive. I have no problem with the race. I think that is a distinction worth making. But of course the two are related. The temptation for a Jewish person to actually believe themselves to be the chosen race must be very strong. I don't think you can adhere to the Jewish faith without believing it. It's another case of religion effing the world up. I find it much more difficult to respect religions with a strong racial component than otherwise. Anyway, that's my complaint. There's not much more to say about it I suppose.

There is a Hebrew nation, but not a race...The race should be Semites, I believe, but where ever the jews have went they have married, and slaves if they allowed themselves to be circumcised soon became a part of the community... If there were Chinese Jews they would look like Chinese; but the culture would remain Jewish... They have a very dominant culture...
 
Deckard
 
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 09:40 pm
@Fido,
Fido;161040 wrote:
There is a Hebrew nation, but not a race...The race should be Semites, I believe, but where ever the jews have went they have married, and slaves if they allowed themselves to be circumcised soon became a part of the community... If there were Chinese Jews they would look like Chinese; but the culture would remain Jewish... They have a very dominant culture...


Semites is a race that includes but is not limited to the sons of Jacob. Why are there so many confusing names? It is rather silly to talk about Arab antisemetism when Arabs are Semites. Perhaps its time for a new word? Scripturally its a matter of blood lines not just culture... and the scriptures are of course a major part of the foundation of that culture. There is no way to separate the race, the bloodline from the culture. Indeed that is the problem.

If the "light unto the Gentiles" was purely cultural I would find it much less offensive provided I could be initiated into that culture. But no that is not the case (or is it?) I am a Goy and the closest I can come to being part of the light of the chosen people is to be a mere reflection of it... a Moon to that Sun. Its horribly offensive. Isaiah is however, several thousand years old and as I have said it is a universal tendency for primitive tribal religions to include a mythology that glorifies their tribe above the other tribes. And I consider the Nazi religion (Wotanism or whatever it was called) to be a primitive tribal religion. But to still hold to that mythology today in these more enlightened times is just not something I will excuse or accept. But again, perhaps it is only the least intelligent and most backward of the Jews that believe in these things just as it is the least intelligent and most backward of the Anglo-Saxons and Germans that still believe in the racial superiority of the so called "Aryans". Yes there is a parallel there. It has to be talked about. But it goes without saying that an attempted genocide is infinitely more offensive to humanity than claiming to be "the light unto the Gentiles".

A culture that attempts to conquer all other cultures and wipe out some of them along the way is perhaps the exact opposite of a culture that attempts to save and enLighten other cultures. Still, the Nazis thought they were doing the world a favor too.
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 03:26 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;161098 wrote:
Semites is a race that includes but is not limited to the sons of Jacob. Why are there so many confusing names? It is rather silly to talk about Arab antisemetism when Arabs are Semites. Perhaps its time for a new word? Scripturally its a matter of blood lines not just culture... and the scriptures are of course a major part of the foundation of that culture. There is no way to separate the race, the bloodline from the culture. Indeed that is the problem.

If the "light unto the Gentiles" was purely cultural I would find it much less offensive provided I could be initiated into that culture. But no that is not the case (or is it?) I am a Goy and the closest I can come to being part of the light of the chosen people is to be a mere reflection of it... a Moon to that Sun. Its horribly offensive. Isaiah is however, several thousand years old and as I have said it is a universal tendency for primitive tribal religions to include a mythology that glorifies their tribe above the other tribes. And I consider the Nazi religion (Wotanism or whatever it was called) to be a primitive tribal religion. But to still hold to that mythology today in these more enlightened times is just not something I will excuse or accept. But again, perhaps it is only the least intelligent and most backward of the Jews that believe in these things just as it is the least intelligent and most backward of the Anglo-Saxons and Germans that still believe in the racial superiority of the so called "Aryans". Yes there is a parallel there. It has to be talked about. But it goes without saying that an attempted genocide is infinitely more offensive to humanity than claiming to be "the light unto the Gentiles".

A culture that attempts to conquer all other cultures and wipe out some of them along the way is perhaps the exact opposite of a culture that attempts to save and enLighten other cultures. Still, the Nazis thought they were doing the world a favor too.

It may have once been racial, but there is now no distnct race... Anyone can be a Jew, but they will not seek you out...Protestantism is very like Judaism in my opinion without so much of the formality... There is tangible justification for both groups, the thought that if you are blessed it will be shown in tangible difference, such as wealth, and it is easiier to justify wealth amid poverty if you can say it is the will of God...

As for your question of the multitude of names: People do not deliberatly add to their own confusion... Words, which stand for ideas/forms/ concepts/notions must only be as numerous as the class they name...But it is a good clue that one thing is different from another if it has a different name... We have rights, and then we have property rights...If property rights were not so often in comflict with rights which are based upon a different premise entirely, they would not need a different designation...
 
merlin13
 
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 01:54 am
I think it is a matter of interpretation. So many things in the Bible are spoken metaphorically in some sense. In this case the word Gentiles, Goim means "people". Which people are they? The ones belonging to a particular race, juxtaposed with some chosen "race"? No, that is not what is being stated.
The contrast is made obviously between those who follow the teaching and those who do not, whichever race they belong to. Presumably, following that teaching incurs benefits, not following it is bad for the soul etc.
But that appears to be the claim made by various groups throughout the world. They always exclude whoever is not part of the group, I would think. So, it is your right to take offense at that specific passage, but then you could also take offense at the priests of Odin who tell you he is the greatest god or those who believe in the Dreamtime and would exclude you out of it because you are not a dreamer or those Christians or Muslims who believe you are going to Hell simply because you are not accepting every word they utter literary. So, if you refuse to take offense with them, there is no logical reason that I can see to be offended by Isaiah, although you equally have right to emotional reasons of course. The main point is, I believe, if you are not in the in crowd, you are out of it, as true of statement in our time, independent really of the race bias and based solely on the participation bias. My two cents.
 
 

 
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