1 Samuel Chapter 8

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Deckard
 
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 11:53 pm
Here's a chapter that has always intrigued me. The Israelites ask for a king. God (through Samuel and granted Samuel had a vested interest since he made his sons judges over Israel.) warns them that this is a mistake but God lets them have a king anyway. If the Hebrews had had more faith in God Israel should never have had a king. That is to say, they never should have had a king, no king David, no King Solomon, no kings at all. No King Jesus either but then perhaps Jesus reversed the process, he was sort of an anti-King and according to some God himself? But I'm posting this under Judaism so I don't want to argue the point of Jesus (besides I don't know which side of that argument I'm on).

Quote:
1And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.
2Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba.
3And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.
4Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
5And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
6But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
7And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
9Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
10And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
11And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
12And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
13And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
14And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
15And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
16And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
17He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
18And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
19Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
20That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
21And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
22And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.
I present it as a biblical justification for decentralizing power structures.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 05:28 pm
@Deckard,
I know you said no Jesus, but just quickly, Did we need to crown Jesus or was he already wearing one?

A because David or Saul may have been false kings put the 'Son of David' in some doubt?

Maybe David would be the first man made king that the king of heaven could tolerate?

Maybe King Jesus needed to be king of Man and King of God?

'I present it as a biblical justification for decentralizating power structures'

You need to be kings of yourselves because if you think you will need another one to rule you, he's gonna need paying.
Keep your whole wage, keep your whole soul.

taxation is our new king?
 
Deckard
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 11:48 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;140048 wrote:

taxation is our new king?


Kings collected taxes so your question makes no sense.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:49 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;140160 wrote:
Kings collected taxes so your question makes no sense.

a king without a crown.
a king with out a head.
money's all that counts.
the king is now dead.

the king used to collect and now that is the job of the government,
government is run and funded by the tax, the tax rules the kingdom not a personage or peerage.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 01:39 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;140289 wrote:
a king without a crown.
a king with out a head.
money's all that counts.
the king is now dead.

the king used to collect and now that is the job of the government,
government is run and funded by the tax, the tax rules the kingdom not a personage or peerage.


There is a difference between a king and government of the people by the people and for the people. Ideally, a democracy or democratic republic the "king" is the collective people. Ideally, taxes are collected by the people for the people. In any case, the government collects taxes, taxes do not collect taxes. What you are saying doesn't make a lick of sense.
 
 

 
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