Nietzsche's Mental Decline

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hue-man
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 01:34 pm
Many believe that Nietzsche went insane due to a syphilis infection. However, there is an alternative view that Nietzsche actually had a meningioma. Check out this article on the matter.



 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 01:54 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;156493 wrote:
Many believe that Nietzsche went insane due to a syphilis infection. However, there is an alternative view that Nietzsche actually had a meningioma. Check out this article on the matter.





Might it really have been that he actually believed what he said? That might be enough to cause anyone's mental decline. Beware! Who knows how many IQ points have been lost from treating Nietzsche seriously?
 
jgweed
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 04:26 pm
@hue-man,
Well, I for one treat Nietzsche seriously as a philosopher, and I am not alone in doing so. Are you saying that this has lowered my IQ?
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 04:35 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed;156536 wrote:
Well, I for one treat Nietzsche seriously as a philosopher, and I am not alone in doing so. Are you saying that this has lowered my IQ?


It may well be that reading such poor comment will in fact lower your I.Q.:Not-Impressed:

---------- Post added 04-25-2010 at 05:39 PM ----------

 
Deckard
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 05:04 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Would the meningioma have affected Nietzsche's earlier work? Seems like it would.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 05:59 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed;156536 wrote:
Well, I for one treat Nietzsche seriously as a philosopher, and I am not alone in doing so. Are you saying that this has lowered my IQ?


I said that reading him would. It would certainly confuse anyone who read him. Consider the discussions of him. But you really should not take things so personally. Maybe that is what reading Nietzsche causes. He certainly writes as if the world centered about him.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:29 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;156550 wrote:
Would the meningioma have affected Nietzsche's earlier work? Seems like it would.


I don't believe that the meningioma effected Nietzsche's work. Whether one agrees with Nietzsche or not, he was clearly coherent and sane in his writings. The fact that his perspective on the world frightens some people doesn't mean that his mind wasn't sound. The only real sign of insanity in Nietzsche's writings come during the period that he actually went insane. The fact that some people try to use his eventual mental decline as a reason to belittle him is quite pathetic. It lowers my opinion of most human beings that much more.
 
TuringEquivalent
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:30 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;156568 wrote:
I said that reading him would. It would certainly confuse anyone who read him. Consider the discussions of him. But you really should not take things so personally. Maybe that is what reading Nietzsche causes. He certainly writes as if the world centered about him.


I actually believe the **** i say.:whistling:


I gave him a point for character. Nietzsche have honor.
 
jgweed
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:31 pm
@hue-man,
Well, then, having read all of N's published works (how else could I begin to say that I took him seriously as a philosopher?), and many of his unpublished notebooks, then over some years, my IQ must have lowered itself to the level of village idiot. Fortunately for you, as I take it from some other threads about Nietzsche, you have not read his works, and so have not lowered your IQ.

Fortunately, I am still able to discuss Nietzsche from a philosophical perspective, and not indulge in silly remarks about him or other Members.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:34 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;156496 wrote:
Might it really have been that he actually believed what he said? That might be enough to cause anyone's mental decline. Beware! Who knows how many IQ points have been lost from treating Nietzsche seriously?


I don't think you actually know what he believed, but never mind that. Everyone give a round of applause to the jester. I'm glad to see that you actually aren't a robot, Kennethamy.

---------- Post added 04-25-2010 at 08:38 PM ----------

jgweed;156582 wrote:
Well, then, having read all of N's published works (how else could I begin to say that I took him seriously as a philosopher?), and many of his unpublished notebooks, then over some years, my IQ must have lowered itself to the level of village idiot. Fortunately for you, as I take it from some other threads about Nietzsche, you have not read his works, and so have not lowered your IQ.

Fortunately, I am still able to discuss Nietzsche from a philosophical perspective, and not indulge in silly remarks about him or other Members.


It does say something when a person can only resort to name calling and such and not actually attack a man's ideas, doesn't it?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:50 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;156579 wrote:
I don't believe that the meningioma effected Nietzsche's work. Whether one agrees with Nietzsche or not, he was clearly coherent and sane in his writings. The fact that his perspective on the world frightens some people doesn't mean that his mind wasn't sound. The only real sign of insanity in Nietzsche's writings come during the period that he actually went insane. The fact that some people try to use his eventual mental decline as a reason to belittle him is quite pathetic. It lowers my opinion of most human beings that much more.


Whether one agrees with Nietzsche or not, he was clearly coherent and sane in his writings.

You could have fooled me.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:52 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;156595 wrote:
Whether one agrees with Nietzsche or not, he was clearly coherent and sane in his writings.

You could have fooled me.


No need to try and fool someone who is already good at being foolish.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:57 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;156597 wrote:
No need to try and fool someone who is already good at being foolish.


When you have no non-fallacious argument, try an abusive ad hominem. It is worse than nothing, but it indulges one's feelings. "Ah, that feels better!" You lost an opportunity to keep quiet. Now how do you feel?
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 07:03 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;156601 wrote:
When you have no non-fallacious argument, try an abusive ad hominem. It is worse than nothing, but it indulges one's feelings. "Ah, that feels better!"


That's great, Kennethamy. You're getting better and better at this. There's something sort of sad about the jester, though. I have a sense that they cry themselves to sleep every night after they indulge their feelings in buffoonery.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 07:22 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;156579 wrote:
I don't believe that meningioma affected Nietzsche's work. Whether one agrees with Nietzsche or not, he was clearly coherent and sane in his writings. The fact that his perspective on the world frightens some people doesn't mean that his mind wasn't sound. The only real sign of insanity in Nietzsche's writings come during the period that he actually went insane. The fact that some people try to use his eventual mental decline as a reason to belittle him is quite pathetic. It lowers my opinion of most human beings that much more.

You have to admit that some of Nietzsche's stuff is weird to the point of being possibly crazy. e.g. Zarathustra. Zarathustra is bizzare and full of strange symbolism and coded meanings, some of which perhaps only Nietzsche fully understood. I suppose you may consider that to be completely coherent but I don't.

Nor do I think you have to be nuts to write something like Zarathustra but spells of dionysian mania and delusions of grandure would likely aid the creative process in this case.

Personally, I don't consider being a little crazy or having a tumor putting pressure on the brain to disqualify or belittle anyone as a philosopher...might produce some interesting effects and some interesting insights.

According to the article you posted the insanity that is produced by syphilis comes on fast whereas the effects of meningioma are more gradual and take a long time before they drive the victim completely nuts. It states that the meningioma may have caused the headaches he experienced all his life. So my comment was hardly the result of some anti-Nietzsche bias on my part.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 08:07 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;156603 wrote:
That's great, Kennethamy. You're getting better and better at this. There's something sort of sad about the jester, though. I have a sense that they cry themselves to sleep every night after they indulge their feelings in buffoonery.


I wasn't jesting. I was suggesting that you not employ abusive ad hominems, especially when no abuse was directed at you, personally, but only at Nietzsche. Unless, of course, you identify with Nietzsche.
 
TuringEquivalent
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 08:17 pm
@kennethamy,
Nietzsche has a classic type 1 personality. A person that hold on to one` s conviction of what is right, and try to muster whatever system to support their views. 1 - Enneagram Type One: The Reformer
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 12:51 am
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;156617 wrote:
Nietzsche has a classic type 1 personality. A person that hold on to one` s conviction of what is right, and try to muster whatever system to support their views. 1 - Enneagram Type One: The Reformer


A few remarks. Nietzsche was not one who probably appreciated judging people so quickly. He was critical of Judaism, but really, the only thing I've found so far of him that suggests he hates Judaism is that he didn't like how Judaism gave rise to Christianity, or so that's his view on the matter. Otherwise he really does praise Judaism a lot. Yet this might seem ironic to the cultural depiction of him coming out as his being some sort of anti-semite. A quick look at a person almost always means generalizing, and such is the case here. Where yes, Nietzsche despised Christianity, we cannot generalize him and say, therefore he hated Jesus, and therefore he hated religion. Such pop psychology is full of these therefores.

Another point is that Nietzsche was not really one to express his opinion so I guess I don't really understand what you mean Turing. To the unrefined reader of him, it's almost an illusion that what he is doing is actually expressing opinion after opinion without backing it up, but really, look closer and it's quite the opposite. The psychological stance he adopts tends to make his statements seem inductive, and it throws the reader off I guess. But what he is doing is expressing a different method in philosophy, one which is not after the rambling of opinions and reconciliations, but about clarification, and understanding why philosophers think the way they do about problems. Nietzsche recognized the potential of psychology and the mindset it involves in this regard, and calls it the queen of science as a result. The queen is always there to back up the king.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 12:57 am
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;156617 wrote:
Nietzsche has a classic type 1 personality. A person that hold on to one` s conviction of what is right, and try to muster whatever system to support their views. 1 - Enneagram Type One: The Reformer


Doesn't strike me as type 1
Maybe more of an 8?

8 - Enneagram Type Eight: The Challenger

Or more likely a 5?

5 - Enneagram Type Five: The Investigator

Maybe a 14?
 
TuringEquivalent
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:07 am
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401;156656 wrote:
Such pop psychology is full of these therefores.


Enneagram is a model of human behavior that is rooted is the classical dispositional theory of psychology that long term statistical behavior patterns do not vary across age, and situation. Like all models, they are good approximations within the limits of it ` s own assumptions. By saying it is "pop
psychology", you are perhaps trying to trivialize it.



Quote:
Another point is that Nietzsche was not really one to express his opinion so I guess I don't really understand what you mean Turing. To the unrefined reader of him, it's almost an illusion that what he is doing is actually expressing opinion after opinion without backing it up, but really, look closer and it's quite the opposite. The psychological stance he adopts tends to make his statements seem inductive, and it throws the reader off I guess. But what he is doing is expressing a different method in philosophy, one which is not after the rambling of opinions and reconciliations, but about clarification, and understanding why philosophers think the way they do about problems. Nietzsche recognized the potential of psychology and the mindset it involves in this regard, and calls it the queen of science as a result. The queen is always there to back up the king.


Perhaps! On the other hand, majority of the analytic philosophers see him as a crack. I guess he must be doing something good when so many analytic philosophers hate him.

---------- Post added 04-26-2010 at 03:12 AM ----------

Deckard;156657 wrote:
Doesn't strike me as type 1
Maybe more of an 8?

8 - Enneagram Type Eight: The Challenger

Or more likely a 5?

5 - Enneagram Type Five: The Investigator

Maybe a 14?


Probably a 4, 1, or a 5w4.

type 8 is too practical. 4 would explain his intense dark emotions. 1 would explain why he is so interested in ethics, and the need to justified his views. 5w4 would explain a lot. The head types are 5, 6, 7. These types think a lot.
If he is a 7, then he would be happy all the ******* time, so 7 cannot be it. This leave only 5, and 6. 6 is typically "normal", while he is crazy. If he is a 5, then that would surely explain his complex thinking process. He can` t be 5w6 , for he would be a scientists, and love following rules. So he must be 5w4.
 
 

 
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