gremar,I think it was mostly wishful thinking on Nietzsche's part in stating that,"God Is Dead."I believe he probably thought after his assault on christianity people would be more sophisticated than to go on believeing,so in essence,this middle eastern god would indeed be dead.How about it people any Nietzsche authorities out there?

I've been reading Nietzsche for a while. My thinking is that when Nietzsche said that "God Is Dead" he meant that people during his time no longer believed in the Christian god as he goes on to say "We have killed him"

Here is the full quote from his book "The Gay Science":

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!"
As many of those who did not believe in God were standing together there, he excited considerable laughter. Have you lost him, then? said one. Did he lose his way like a child? said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? or emigrated? Thus they shouted and laughed. The madman sprang into their midst and pierced them with his glances.

"Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whosoever shall be born after us - for the sake of this deed he shall be part of a higher history than all history hitherto."

Here the madman fell silent and again regarded his listeners; and they too were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern to the ground, and it broke and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time has not come yet. The tremendous event is still on its way, still travelling - it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the distant stars - and yet they have done it themselves."

[INDENT]Pathagorean,

This is from,"Thus Spake Zarathustra"? So he is saying that the message has yet to meet his brethren,like light from the sun it will take time.That until that day,when the knowledge of the death of god arrives,the overman is not possiable.So,he sees belief in god as a road block to a higher humanity.Thanks for the input Pathagorean,any thing to add?
[/INDENT]

After doing further reading

Nietzsche in saying "God is dead" is not saying that God was actual and then died, but only the concept of God was actual in the minds of men.It is the concept of God which is now dead in the minds of contemporary thought. Not really all that earth shaking after all! Look around yourself,look at present day Europe.The middle eastern God has a place on the shelf beside the Greek Gods-------or is that wishful thinking?

I agree Boagie. Nietzsche was describing the intellectual or spiritual landscape of his times and in hindsight it turns out that he was quite prophetic.

But Nietzsche goes on to say that not only the Christian god but ALL metaphysical claims are merely human claims. He doesn't believe in any 'privileged' metaphysical claim. He sees such claims as a human created value. According to Nietzsche metaphysical claims do not posess an independent existence of their own. As he says in one of my favorite quotes from the book "The Will To Power"-:

"Truth is the kind of error without which a species could not survive."

Boagie, let me if you will post to two essays about Nietzsche that I have found to be rather instructive to me. I don't mean to be presumptuous but perhaps someone might benefit from reading them:

This first is from Animus: "A Philosophical Journal of Our Time": Neitzsche and the Religion of the Future

This second is a pair of lectures that are posted on line for students. The first lecture is an introduction to "Beyond Good and Evil". The second part is an overall review of Nietzsche's works and ideas. Here is the link:

Beyond Good and Evil

--Pythagorean

Pythagorean,

I hope gremar is still around to benifit,great post Pythagorean this thread with your aid is turning into a great source on Nietzsche.I remember one fellow stateing---and he loved Nietzsche,"He makes my hair hurt!" Nietzsche certainly did burn bright---and----------high enough for the lightening!!!!!

Sorry boagie I inadvertently posted the wrong link.

The second link that I posted titled "Beyond Good and Evil" is to the online text of the book. What I meant to link to was these two lectures by Dr. Ian Johnston. So I will post it here:

A Lecture in Liberal Studies

These lectures are highly recommended for anyone wishing to grasp both the essence of Nietzsche's works and his larger place in the history of philosophy. Happy reading!



--Pythagorean

Pythagorean,

Could you recommend books written on Nietzsche that would give a really good orientation.I realize it is best to go to the source most often,but here I think I need a little help.I have been reading the material you provided and it has fanned the amber into a flame so to speak---------just marvelous stuff!!!!!!!!! Companion books to his titled works if you can.

Boagie, most books on Nietzsche are thematic in that they aren't usually companions to his books, but companions to his themes. And these thematic interpretations tend to vary widely in scope. So it depends upon which line of thought you would like to investigate.

You could start out with The Cambridge Companion to Nietzsche just to get oriented. You could also peruse Wikipedia entry for Nietzsche(scroll down to the bottom for a list of works on Nietzsche). As well as entries in the other online encyclopedias of philosophy.

Here is a good reference page on Nietzsche

What I would recommend is that you get yourself the 1973 Penguin Classics edition of Beyond Good and Evil translated with Commentary by R.J. Hollingdale. The running commentary is found at the back of the book. This commentary along with the text itself is probably the greatest introduction to Nietzsche that I can think of. As far as I can tell you can't get a copy from Amazon.Com but ABEBOOKS.COM has at least one. good luck.

Also if you can formulate a specific question or set of questions that you may have regarding Nietzsche's books or a theme or what have you, I may be able to help.

--Pythagorean