Philosophy video game

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Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 01:21 pm
What would it take to create a video game about philosophy?

What would such a game be like?

This forum, in a way, is like a philosophy video game.

What if it were expanded with 3D full motion avatars, voices, music, obstacles (those who think they are wise but are not, etc.), etc.?

How could you create an argument rendering engine? Or is everything canned?

What would be the criteria for truth? Etc.

How could you prevent the development of dogma among followers?

I think this could be done.

But is there enough of a market for it?
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 01:23 pm
@PappasNick,
The object of the game would be to figure out the object of the game.:brickwall:
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 01:33 pm
@mister kitten,
It's called "life"

*glib answer*
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 02:02 pm
@Jebediah,
Jebediah;144159 wrote:
It's called "life"

*glib answer*


They already have a game called "Life." You drive around in a car for a long time collecting money so you can retire.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 02:20 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;144151 wrote:
What would it take to create a video game about philosophy?

What would such a game be like?

This forum, in a way, is like a philosophy video game.

What if it were expanded with 3D full motion avatars, voices, music, obstacles (those who think they are wise but are not, etc.), etc.?

How could you create an argument rendering engine? Or is everything canned?

What would be the criteria for truth? Etc.

How could you prevent the development of dogma among followers?

I think this could be done.

But is there enough of a market for it?
Play Knights of the Old Republic, and games onwards from that, they holds a reasonable amount of philosophy (very little but much more than other games)
There would be plenty of customers for such a game, just mix some action into it.

It's just that it's difficult to write a manuscript for such a game, that has deep impacting consequenses of your choises.
Many doesn't like to be judgemental, nor being judged, less being harsh and cynically as they would fear getting it in return, that would leave us with boring things such as finding truth and existance ..etc, where judgemental choises are easier to avoid.

Another problem is defining answers, as most things are very subjective. In this forum we have a couple of threads searching for truth, and often new members come in search for tuth ..they'll never find it ..as it's but a carrot for the naive ..they will chase it forever. It is the demagogues weapon, who with destroy those of less rethorical skills.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 02:36 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;144183 wrote:
Play Knights of the Old Republic, and games onwards from that, they holds a reasonable amount of philosophy (very little but much more than other games)
There would be plenty of customers for such a game, just mix some action into it.


Thanks for the recommendation. I had a quick look at the Wikipedia page on the game. Would you mind saying more about what (little bit of) philosophy is in it?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 02:49 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;144188 wrote:
Thanks for the recommendation. I had a quick look at the Wikipedia page on the game. Would you mind saying more about what (little bit of) philosophy is in it?
KotOR is 1 of the few games with moral, politic, logic and ethic choises, but they don't have a deep lasting impact, only on the immediate quest.

Specially I like solving a 2 families feuding, and a murder investigation.

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic for PC - Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic PC Game - Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Computer Game
Here's some more info on the game.

KotOR 2 isn't so well regarded as KotOR 1.
 
Purplesawdust
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 12:33 pm
@PappasNick,
A game centered and philosophy and morality at the core is a game that has the players make the decision, not the game itself. We are a long ways until that can come into fruition.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 02:54 pm
@Purplesawdust,
Purplesawdust;144689 wrote:
A game centered and philosophy and morality at the core is a game that has the players make the decision, not the game itself. We are a long ways until that can come into fruition.


I agree - players make the decisions. But the game generates the consequences.

I'm not so sure that we're a long way from a game like this. It would take a handful of the right people sitting down and mapping out the basics of the game. Then it would take funding to develop it.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 03:10 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;144804 wrote:
I agree - players make the decisions. But the game generates the consequences.

I'm not so sure that we're a long way from a game like this. It would take a handful of the right people sitting down and mapping out the basics of the game. Then it would take funding to develop it.
I remember Baldurs Gate 1 + 2, killing the wrong person could impact many hours of playing, which greatly irritated people as they were able to make "wrong" decisions and thereby being punished for that.
Modern games does not punish people, for making poor choises taking account for ignorence and allows a smooth and continual gameplay.
 
Blueback
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 01:27 pm
@HexHammer,
It seems like the nature of programming is such that the game will never be able to keep up with the player's appetites for new content. At least not on its own.

So you have two choices, either program a certain philsophy (or batch of philosphies) into the game engine, or program a sort of forum where people can contribute new philosophies. Programs are inherently linear, they only go from one line of code to another line of code, but philosphy isn't linear. Algorithms can't make intuitive leaps. The game has to force a particular philosophy on the player simply because any game that didn't would be a perfect simulation of reality. . .and if that's what you want you could just walk outside.

The real question is, what philosphy do you want people to play through?

That being said, most games seem to pick one or two basic skills to focus on. FPS pick hand/eye coordination and spatial awareness, RTS games pick hierarchical strategy and team coordination, RPGs pick memorization and the ability to waste your life (lol). I think a philosophy game should pick a couple skills that would make people better at philosophy in general, rather than one philosphy in particular.

For example, the game engine could be taugh how to string words together into sentences. Then players could be confronted with NPCs who spout plausible-sounding gibberish, and the player has to learn to distinguish what makes sense from what doesn't. Maybe they could pick from drop-down lists of the definitions of all the words in the sentence (or at least the major ones) and they could quickly piece together an explanation for why the sentence contradicts itself. That would reinforce the notion that it is important to actually understand the meaning of the words so that you know when someone is saying something stupid. The reward could be stars. Everyone loves stars.

Another basic skill the game could test people on would be elementary logic. That's all based on rules so it could be programmed into the game. NPCs could make arguments that have logical flaws and then the player has to craft a quick analysis that exposes the flaw.

Even a game as simple as matching tiles could work. You know those memorization games where you have to find the two tiles with a clover on them, or whatever? Well, instead of that have one tile that has a fallacy on it and another that has the definition of the fallacy, or an example. The player has to not only remember where each was but has to learn the definitions and examples of common fallacies.

Yeah, philosophy is all crazy mystical and whanot, but there are basic skills (equivalent to hand/eye coordination) that help one navigate it.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 02:14 pm
@Blueback,
Blueback;162469 wrote:
It seems like the nature of programming is such that the game will never be able to keep up with the player's appetites for new content. At least not on its own.
1 of the most satisfying games I'v played (played since the Atari 2800 days with Pac Man) it's Age of Kings, it had random generated maps, there were about 12 maps with each their unique setting, to choose from. In most other RTS games, I get bored to death, playing the same map over and over.
 
chopkins
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 03:26 pm
@PappasNick,
Well, what would you guys say about World of Warcraft, or the entire Warcraft series. Having not ever played any of the Warcraft games and only the MMO, I have a feeling that they could have a bit more latitude to make the decisions that the player makes have lasting consequences. From my play experience (played for three years or so, no longer), I seem to remember that yes, there were certain decisions you could make to piss certain factions off, but that was fairly inconsequential.

Is there any reason that, with a game as popular as World of Warcraft is right now, they dont try to change the programming scheme so that your decisions effect you long term?
 
Blueback
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 03:54 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;162490 wrote:
In most other RTS games [but not age of kings], I get bored to death, playing the same map over and over.

So, all it took was the same rules applied to a randomly generated map? Do you think there's a way to apply that principle to the philosophy game idea?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 01:07 am
@Blueback,
Blueback;162517 wrote:
So, all it took was the same rules applied to a randomly generated map? Do you think there's a way to apply that principle to the philosophy game idea?
Surely depends on excatly what you want, a map is easily randomly generated, whilst it's far more difficult to randomly generate an entirely new random story, plot and twists n turns, it would be the same as being able to have a robot to invent things out of nowhere, but if it's only minor cosmethic changes like replaceing a name from a pool of already generated names, then it is easy, but not a great change for the audience.
 
TuringEquivalent
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 01:27 am
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;144151 wrote:
What would it take to create a video game about philosophy?

What would such a game be like?

This forum, in a way, is like a philosophy video game.

What if it were expanded with 3D full motion avatars, voices, music, obstacles (those who think they are wise but are not, etc.), etc.?

How could you create an argument rendering engine? Or is everything canned?

What would be the criteria for truth? Etc.

How could you prevent the development of dogma among followers?

I think this could be done.

But is there enough of a market for it?



i suppose a little like sim.
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 04:08 am
@PappasNick,
At the heart of game Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 "the choice of the Christ". It is basis of all RPG D&D.

Jesus in desert reflected:
1. To conquer the world by force of arms and magic (evil God way)?
2. To execute mission of rescue of souls?

In Baldur's Gate you solve:

1. To build world tyrany (new Baal)
2. To destroy the Throne and to save the world.

Main idea - Absolute power temptation .

Franck Herbert's "DUNE" same. Muad'Dib - is falling Jesus
 
CharmingPhlsphr
 
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 05:50 am
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;144151 wrote:
What would it take to create a video game about philosophy?

What would such a game be like?

This forum, in a way, is like a philosophy video game.

What if it were expanded with 3D full motion avatars, voices, music, obstacles (those who think they are wise but are not, etc.), etc.?

How could you create an argument rendering engine? Or is everything canned?

What would be the criteria for truth? Etc.

How could you prevent the development of dogma among followers?

I think this could be done.

But is there enough of a market for it?


Some of your ideas would be interesting, but, for the most part, the interest in the application of philosophy in video games is the most important. Consider Bioshock, which is the perfect example of the consequences of an idea. If you haven't played it yet, go through the first game and listen to all of the recordings and read the signs on the walls.
 
 

 
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