Should philosophy be outlawed?

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Arjuna
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 10:58 am
Thomas Aquinas wrote that faith should be legislated. Those without it should be persuaded. If persuasion doesn't work, we should kill them.

We can therefore pin all inquisitions on him. It's not clear what part of the New Testament he was aquainted with. Jesus never said faith should be legislated (did he?) Plato did.

So if we can blitz any philosopher with the stupidity of their followers, have we just made a case for outlawing philosophy?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 11:19 am
@Arjuna,
Arjuna;142216 wrote:
Thomas Aquinas wrote that faith should be legislated. Those without it should be persuaded. If persuasion doesn't work, we should kill them.

We can therefore pin all inquisitions on him. It's not clear what part of the New Testament he was aquainted with. Jesus never said faith should be legislated (did he?) Plato did.

So if we can blitz any philosopher with the stupidity of their followers, have we just made a case for outlawing philosophy?


Only if all philosophy followed that bit of nonsense from Aquinas, yes. But, of course, even that bit of nonsense from Aquinas is not Aquinas's whole philosophy, and it is certainly not what philosophy is all about.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 11:32 am
@Arjuna,
In the free world the fool can lead fools ..but never punished just as long as nothing criminal happens by that.
We must allow them freedom of speech, because too many times we have considerd great knowledge for foolish, see Darwin's Evolution Theory.
However imo some of the philosophy should be labled as outdated and only for fools.
 
Arjuna
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 12:29 pm
@HexHammer,
kennethamy;142220 wrote:
Only if all philosophy followed that bit of nonsense from Aquinas, yes. But, of course, even that bit of nonsense from Aquinas is not Aquinas's whole philosophy, and it is certainly not what philosophy is all about.
Aquinas and Plato, in this case. So if I insinuate that a philosopher should be ignored because of his political position or influence on society, I myself should be ignored?

I'm left wondering to what extent philosophers influence society vs. how they stand as a gold-plated rationale. People can be very strange. I don't rule out that people might have actually been killed because of Thomas Aquinas.

HexHammer;142222 wrote:
However imo some of the philosophy should be labled as outdated and only for fools.
How would you label it?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 12:31 pm
@Arjuna,
Arjuna;142231 wrote:
How would you label it?
As I just said? "outdated and only for fools" ?
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 10:06 am
@Arjuna,
kennethamy;142220 wrote:
Only if all philosophy followed that bit of nonsense from Aquinas, yes. But, of course, even that bit of nonsense from Aquinas is not Aquinas's whole philosophy, and it is certainly not what philosophy is all about.


Arjuna;142231 wrote:
Aquinas and Plato, in this case. So if I insinuate that a philosopher should be ignored because of his political position or influence on society, I myself should be ignored?

I'm left wondering to what extent philosophers influence society vs. how they stand as a gold-plated rationale. People can be very strange. I don't rule out that people might have actually been killed because of Thomas Aquinas.
...



Kennethamy did not say that you should be ignored if you say that someone should be ignored. He said, if ALL philosophy followed that bit of nonsense from Aquinas, then it should be outlawed. But, it is false that all philosophy followed that bit of nonsense from Aquinas, and that even includes Aquinas.
 
Ascendere
 
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 10:34 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;142222 wrote:
In the free world the fool can lead fools ..but never punished just as long as nothing criminal happens by that.
We must allow them freedom of speech, because too many times we have considerd great knowledge for foolish, see Darwin's Evolution Theory.
However imo some of the philosophy should be labled as outdated and only for fools.

Well you do have to take into consideration that the philosophers of antiquity lived in differsnt times and had , for the most part, less insight thatn us in the present . So saying it's only for fools is a bit harsh, we must simply aknowledge that it is aoutdated and perhaps obsolete.
Also, outawing certain philosophical doctorines is innefective. Think how the Despots outlawed Enlightenement philosophes. They tried but failed horridly. Censorship can only go so far and for so long. Another point is that by arbitrarly restricting knowledge risks having the people turn on you and embracing that knowledge, even though it is wrong/inccorect/malcious ect. It wuld be more logical, and it is what most philosphers have done, to instead provide a solid counter argument that exposes the fallacy of the doctorine's logic.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 01:06 am
@Ascendere,
Ascendere;142813 wrote:
Well you do have to take into consideration that the philosophers of antiquity lived in differsnt times and had , for the most part, less insight thatn us in the present . So saying it's only for fools is a bit harsh, we must simply aknowledge that it is aoutdated and perhaps obsolete.
Also, outawing certain philosophical doctorines is innefective. Think how the Despots outlawed Enlightenement philosophes. They tried but failed horridly. Censorship can only go so far and for so long. Another point is that by arbitrarly restricting knowledge risks having the people turn on you and embracing that knowledge, even though it is wrong/inccorect/malcious ect. It wuld be more logical, and it is what most philosphers have done, to instead provide a solid counter argument that exposes the fallacy of the doctorine's logic.
So "spontanious genesis" is a very wise thing? "I think therefore I am" is high philosophy? Finding "truth" is also very useable? Kirkegaard has paved our roads with wisdom?

Imo all mentioned examples are nonsens, even some of Sigmund Freud's conceps such as phallos and penis envy is utterly nonsens, which should be labled as outdated.

You totally misunderstand my intention, it's not to outlaw philosophy, it's to define the "stone age" philosophy from the "modern" and "intelligent" philosophy, just that if you belive anything labled "stone age" then it is your free choise.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 11:57 am
@Ascendere,
Ascendere;142813 wrote:
Well you do have to take into consideration that the philosophers of antiquity lived in differsnt times and had , for the most part, less insight thatn us in the present . ...


If it were not for your phrase, "for the most part", I would very strongly disagree with your claim. Whenever I hear people say that moderns are more sophisticated than ancients, I tend to think of Epicurus, and how his views are far more in line with modern scientific thinking than virtually all philosophers after him up to the modern age, and more in line with scientific thinking than some very modern philosophers, and how he is more in line with modern scientific thinking than most modern people. Indeed, with a few minor adjustments that do not affect his essential ideas, he can be brought completely in line with the latest in scientific thinking. Of course, that is why the Christians in the Dark Ages burned all of the books of his that they could find.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 02:10 pm
@Arjuna,
Faith and Philosophy aren't synonymous; one is a subset of the other. It almost sounds as if your main question is really, "Should faith be outlawed".

In either case, no. Laws don't often have much in common with ethics anyway.

Cheers!
 
north
 
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 02:15 pm
@Khethil,
to me this is the same thing as thought and questioning should be outlawed

a bizzare thread
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 02:19 pm
@north,
north;143169 wrote:
to me this is the same thing as thought and questioning should be outlawed

a bizzare thread
Let's say our philosophy is like medical sience, would you like to be operated by a doctor from medival time?
 
pondfish
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 09:41 am
@Arjuna,
Hex hammer should be outlawed. Razz
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 10:02 am
@pondfish,
pondfish;144023 wrote:
Hex hammer should be outlawed. Razz
I choose to take that as a compliment, with my superior philosocally ways!
 
pondfish
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 10:05 am
@Arjuna,
Just cheering you up. Nothing more. Philosophy for lazy bums.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 10:07 am
@pondfish,
pondfish;144038 wrote:
Just cheering you up. Nothing more. Philosophy for lazy bums.
For the very active also! For buisness men, for soldiers and officers, just each requires their adaptation of philosophy.
 
Ascendere
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 07:55 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;143103 wrote:
If it were not for your phrase, "for the most part", I would very strongly disagree with your claim. Whenever I hear people say that moderns are more sophisticated than ancients, I tend to think of Epicurus, and how his views are far more in line with modern scientific thinking than virtually all philosophers after him up to the modern age, and more in line with scientific thinking than some very modern philosophers, and how he is more in line with modern scientific thinking than most modern people. Indeed, with a few minor adjustments that do not affect his essential ideas, he can be brought completely in line with the latest in scientific thinking. Of course, that is why the Christians in the Dark Ages burned all of the books of his that they could find.


Haha very true. But you kind of help my point. you said with minor adjustments, which means he had a little less insight. The ancients were on a different level tho, and thats a different discussion.


HexHammer also proves my point, you'r using counter-logic. Also what do u mean high philosophy? since when does philosophy have a heirarchy? As for usable: How does the question "should philosophy be outlawed" usable? Aslo to your analogy about philosophy, i wouldn't like to get operated on period. Hexhammer you seem to be pretty arrogant but your arguements lack substance.
 
north
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 08:24 pm
@HexHammer,
Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
to me this is the same thing as thought and questioning should be outlawed

a bizzare thread



HexHammer;143171 wrote:
Let's say our philosophy is like medical sience, would you like to be operated by a doctor from medival time?


lets say its not ...

what is your point ?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 04:21 am
@north,
north;144941 wrote:
lets say its not ...

what is your point ?
With outdated philosophy there are no consequenses for speaking nonsens, beliveing in a flat world ..it's harmless.

With outdated medical sience, you will produce very disasterous results, because such outdated knowledge has direct consequenses.

People don't realize that outdated philosophy is outdated, because they never see any end result, only by observing a direct endresult they can better understand, else they will forever live in their naive world of babbeling thoughts.
 
Ascendere
 
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:33 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;145102 wrote:
With outdated philosophy there are no consequenses for speaking nonsens, beliveing in a flat world ..it's harmless.

With outdated medical sience, you will produce very disasterous results, because such outdated knowledge has direct consequenses.

People don't realize that outdated philosophy is outdated, because they never see any end result, only by observing a direct endresult they can better understand, else they will forever live in their naive world of babbeling thoughts.

Even modern philosophy can have the same effects tho. I would have to argue i's not realy the philosophy, but the people's inability to recognize faulty logic.
 
 

 
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