Philosophers are Inventors of Concepts

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 02:19 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;112439 wrote:
My only objection to this is that philosophers can also use metaphors. They can simply describe or redescribe, without argumentation. According to Kojeve, for instance, Hegel's method is not dialectical but rather only the non-dialectical description of something that was dialectical. According to Kojeve, Hegel was in the right place at the right time where such description/explanation was sufficient.

I found this on Wiki.
Explanations and arguments

Main article: Argument
While arguments attempt to show that something is, will be, or should be the case, explanations try to show why or how something is or will be. If Fred and Joe address the issue of whether or not Fred's cat has fleas, Joe may state: "Fred, your cat has fleas. Observe the cat is scratching right now." Joe has made an argument that the cat has fleas. However, if Fred and Joe agree on the fact that the cat has fleas, they may further question why this is so and put forth an explanation: "The reason the cat has fleas is that the weather has been damp." The difference is that the attempt is not to settle whether or not some claim is true, it is to show why it is true.
Arguments and explanations largely resemble each other in rhetorical use. This is the cause of much difficulty in thinking critically about claims. There are several reasons for this difficulty.

  • People often are not not themselves clear on whether they are arguing for or explaining something.
  • The same types of words and phrases are used in presenting explanations and arguments.
  • The terms 'explain' or 'explanation,' et cetera are frequently used in arguments.
  • Explanations are often used within arguments and presented so as to serve as arguments.



I agree there is a difference between arguments and explanations. But, what does that show about the view that philosophers ought to argue for their views, and that metaphors are not arguments? You don't think that metaphors are explanations, do you? What is your point? What has the distinction between argument and explanation to do with the post to which you are replying?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 03:54 pm
@Reconstructo,
To describe subjective experiences metaphors are necessary.

Let's consider the invention of the concept of causality. Was the concept of causality created by argument or rather by description? Aristotle used the metaphor "beginning" for cause. He described/invented an explanatory concept. We adopted it because it appealed to us, seemed empowering, comforting, useful. The concept "nature" is another invention. Nature= reason. We have a chain of abstractions. Beginning is also an abstraction. How was "beginning" invented?

In his Posterior Analytics and Metaphysics, Aristotle wrote, "All causes are beginnings..."[6], "... we have scientific knowledge when we know the cause..."[7], and "... to know a thing's nature is to know the reason why it is..."[8] This formulation set the guidelines for subsequent causal theories by specifying the number, nature, principles, elements, varieties, order of causes as well as the modes of causation. Aristotle's account of the causes of things is a comprehensive model.

Beginning's etymology: From Old English beginnan, from a Proto-Germanic root apparently meaning 'open up'; for the sense development, consider English open fire, opening ceremony, etc.

Of course Aristotle used a greek word, but I suspect we will find the same sort of thing. Abstract words trace back to the concrete and the sensual.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 05:36 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;112464 wrote:
To describe subjective experiences metaphors are necessary.

Let's consider the invention of the concept of causality. Was the concept of causality created by argument or rather by description? Aristotle used the metaphor "beginning" for cause. He described/invented an explanatory concept. We adopted it because it appealed to us, seemed empowering, comforting, useful. The concept "nature" is another invention. Nature= reason. We have a chain of abstractions. Beginning is also an abstraction. How was "beginning" invented?

In his Posterior Analytics and Metaphysics, Aristotle wrote, "All causes are beginnings..."[6], "... we have scientific knowledge when we know the cause..."[7], and "... to know a thing's nature is to know the reason why it is..."[8] This formulation set the guidelines for subsequent causal theories by specifying the number, nature, principles, elements, varieties, order of causes as well as the modes of causation. Aristotle's account of the causes of things is a comprehensive model.

Beginning's etymology: From Old English beginnan, from a Proto-Germanic root apparently meaning 'open up'; for the sense development, consider English open fire, opening ceremony, etc.

Of course Aristotle used a greek word, but I suspect we will find the same sort of thing. Abstract words trace back to the concrete and the sensual.


I asked what the distinction between argument and explanation had to do with your post. What has any of what you have just posted to do with that question?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 06:13 pm
@Reconstructo,
He demands an explanation of my description of explanation. Perhaps a description of this will serve as an explanation.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 06:47 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;112496 wrote:
He demands an explanation of my description of explanation. Perhaps a description of this will serve as an explanation.


I didn't demand anything, and certainly not and description from you. Just what has the distinction between argument and explanation had to do with your previous post? Please re-read.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 11:54 pm
@Reconstructo,
"Cause" is an invented concept. It comes from the word for beginning. But this word "beginning" was used in unexpected ways until the notion of causality was associated with it. It was born as a metaphor. Slowly it cooled and hardened. Now causality is a literal concept that most people assume has always been here.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 02:39 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;112894 wrote:
"Cause" is an invented concept. It comes from the word for beginning. But this word "beginning" was used in unexpected ways until the notion of causality was associated with it. It was born as a metaphor. Slowly it cooled and hardened. Now causality is a literal concept that most people assume has always been here.


Why wasn't it a "literal concept" in the beginning too? What makes you think it was "born as a metaphor"? And what do you mean by, "now causality is a literal concept"? What would it be for it to be a metaphorical concept? I really don't follow what you are saying. Aren't all concepts invented? No one just finds them lying about under the brambles.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 03:31 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;112928 wrote:
Why wasn't it a "literal concept" in the beginning too? What makes you think it was "born as a metaphor"? And what do you mean by, "now causality is a literal concept"? What would it be for it to be a metaphorical concept? I really don't follow what you are saying. Aren't all concepts invented? No one just finds them lying about under the brambles.


It seems that "cause" once meant "beginning." Before English translation, I mean. So the concept of cause was invented/popularized by using the word "beginning" is new ways. At some point we invented the meaning behind "cause", and could only express it/conceive it as a metaphor. But once its created and spreads("beginning" used in the new sense of "cause"), the rest of us can learn it by context, without having to recognize the original metaphor.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 12:28 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;112928 wrote:
Why wasn't it a "literal concept" in the beginning too? What makes you think it was "born as a metaphor"? And what do you mean by, "now causality is a literal concept"? What would it be for it to be a metaphorical concept? I really don't follow what you are saying. Aren't all concepts invented? No one just finds them lying about under the brambles.

Yes, they are all invented. The question is how? I say that concepts are invented as metaphors. Cause once meant beginning. Aristotle or someone before him used the word for beginning in sentences that implied what is now causality. So "beginning" started to mean cause. I'm judging by the available etymology.

We can charge old words with new meanings by means of sentences / trope / metaphor/ word-combination.
 
 

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/19/2024 at 04:10:19