Why a reality where we can have bad experiences? In a subjective reality

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Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 11:14 am
So.

What is good and bad is subjective. It completely depends on a persons beliefs and values.
I see this reality as a dream like reality of consciousness. Im guessing most of you agree with me on this? Or at least can't argue against that its not possible.

It is possible to experience good dreams and bad dreams. however all these dreams come from the collective consciousness. In terms of dreams in our reality this would be our brain. In terms of this whole reality being a dream some people describe it as there spiritituality or god. The second. The now. The everything. The figment.

The best explanation I can give is that we consciousness is like a dream in witch the dreamer is not very good at lucid dreaming. It just lets its experience run wild and not very controlled. In terms of a normal dream it is limited by what things are happening in your life partly, unless you learn to lucid dream where you can take control. We have a limited consciousness at this time but its possible to expand it. Even while in the dream. Everything new we learn of archive is really an expansion of consciousness. And mastering this does help us live a happier life by having more control over it. But there are always things that can bring us down as we are nowhere near are full potential. I mean. this dream isn't that lucid at the moment. I mean I can't jump out my window and start flying now. I TRIED! IT DIDN'T WORK! Very Happy

This is my take on why bad experiences are able to happen. What about yours?
 
de budding
 
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 12:11 pm
@glasstrees,
To clarify for my timid mind...

...you feel if we became more lucid, we would have more control over those 'bad' things which we are all subjected to in our un-lucid state?

Or to re-phrase: My reality is like a dream, in that I have little control. It is this lack of control that causes 'bad' things to happen to me... yes? If I was to become more lucid I could stop some, or all of these bad things.

Regards,
Dan.
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 12:09 am
@de budding,
de_budding;78832 wrote:
To clarify for my timid mind...

...you feel if we became more lucid, we would have more control over those 'bad' things which we are all subjected to in our un-lucid state?

Or to re-phrase: My reality is like a dream, in that I have little control. It is this lack of control that causes 'bad' things to happen to me... yes? If I was to become more lucid I could stop some, or all of these bad things.

Regards,
Dan.


Yeah. This does happen. As in stupid people can be taken advantage of an have "bad" things happen to them. But if there consciousness grew they would recognise the problem and get out of the situation.
 
de budding
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 03:20 am
@glasstrees,
But these 'stupid', people as you call 'em, may be ignorant to such bad things and thus they don't seem so bad.

Is not possible that all the 'bad' and 'good' that every person feels is the same, in that, no matter what our experiences we all experience roughly the same spectrum of good or bad. After all our brains and emotional apparatus are all the same.

For example, someone who skipped school; is practically destitute; and works as a chimney sweep feels the same level/type of happiness on his weekends off down the local pub than, say, someone who attend private school; lives in a mansion; and works as a lawyer when he has his weekends off and goes to the local box social for a very pretentious drink. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the chimney sweep and layer had both convinced themselves they were happier than the other.

Dan.
 
William
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 05:22 am
@de budding,
de_budding;78948 wrote:
But these 'stupid', people as you call 'em, may be ignorant to such bad things and thus they don't seem so bad.

Is not possible that all the 'bad' and 'good' that every person feels is the same, in that, no matter what our experiences we all experience roughly the same spectrum of good or bad. After all our brains and emotional apparatus are all the same.

For example, someone who skipped school; is practically destitute; and works as a chimney sweep feels the same level/type of happiness on his weekends off down the local pub than, say, someone who attend private school; lives in a mansion; and works as a lawyer when he has his weekends off and goes to the local box social for a very pretentious drink. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the chimney sweep and layer had both convinced themselves they were happier than the other.

Dan.


Might I offer it is my observation. Your analogy comes from the perspective of the "lawyer" as you do not take into consideration those "other" differences between the "chimney sweep" and the "lawyer" such as can be assumed like: "mansion/hovel, clean/soiled, master/slave, leadership/servitude, intellect/ingnorance and so forth. It is a rationalization assuming to know the perception of the "lesser", when in reality there is no way of knowing the perception of the chimney sweep for we have be programmed to hear only the elite who have a voice, where as the poor have none other than what they are "allowed" to have.

Had your analogy been from the perception of the chimney sweep, I am sure it would have been different. Perhaps not?

Just an observation. Your comments, please.

William
 
richrf
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 08:16 am
@de budding,
de_budding;78832 wrote:
...you feel if we became more lucid, we would have more control over those 'bad' things which we are all subjected to in our un-lucid state? Dan.


Hi Dan,

I don't think of it as having more control, since I don't think we can control things since there are so many influences around us that affect who we are and what we can and cannot do. However, I do think that as we become more lucid (aware), we can become better navigators.

Much like a sailor, who can choose to navigate through a large way, around the wave, or away from the wave, we to have choices in which way to go, and the more experiences we accumulate (through many physical lives, maybe), the better navigators we may become.

Rich
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 10:49 am
@William,
William;78959 wrote:

Had your analogy been from the perception of the chimney sweep, I am sure it would have been different. Perhaps not?


William

But what is supposed to follow from that? That it is not better to have money, than not? That is it not better to be educated than not? That is is not better to be intelligent than not? I don't think so.
 
William
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 03:06 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;79013 wrote:
But what is supposed to follow from that? That it is not better to have money, than not? That is it not better to be educated than not? That is is not better to be intelligent than not? I don't think so.


Ken, that was not my point. I was just commenting on the analogy and how skewed it was assuming the lawyer being equal to that of the chimney sweep when they are nothing alike. Education and intelligence are indeed rewardable if they are both equitably compensated insuring no lack for either. In that the compensation of the chimney sweep was lacking noted by his destitute status, he had to forgo his education to survive.The entire analogy was non-sensical and rationalistic from the lawyers point of view, IMO.

Willaim
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 03:19 pm
@William,
William;79081 wrote:
Ken, that was not my point. I was just commenting on the analogy and how skewed it was assuming the lawyer being equal to that of the chimney sweep when they are nothing alike. Education and intelligence are indeed rewardable if they are both equitably compensated insuring no lack for either. In that the compensation of the chimney sweep was lacking noted by his destitute status, he had to forgo his education to survive.The entire analogy was non-sensical and rationalistic from the lawyers point of view, IMO.

Willaim


I guess I don't understand what you are getting at. What is the lawyer's point of view? I am sorry, but I really do not understand what point you are trying to make.
 
de budding
 
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:01 pm
@William,
William;78959 wrote:
Might I offer it is my observation. Your analogy comes from the perspective of the "lawyer" as you do not take into consideration those "other" differences between the "chimney sweep" and the "lawyer" such as can be assumed like: "mansion/hovel, clean/soiled, master/slave, leadership/servitude, intellect/ignorance and so forth. It is a rationalization assuming to know the perception of the "lesser", when in reality there is no way of knowing the perception of the chimney sweep for we have be programmed to hear only the elite who have a voice, where as the poor have none other than what they are "allowed" to have.

Had your analogy been from the perception of the chimney sweep, I am sure it would have been different. Perhaps not?

Just an observation. Your comments, please.

William



To put it another way. I think there is a limited spectrum of emotions programmed into all of us. The negative pole of this spectrum being death and the positive life. I don't think we can feel outside of this spectrum and I think we grow used to any circumstance and thus our emotions are relative. The slave gets as much happiness from his happy things as the rich master from his happy things, no matter how superior they may seem materially. Conversely, the slave gets as much sadness from his sad things as the master from his.

If you took away my freedom and condemned to a life of drudgery, I would adapt and my spectrum shift.

I think this based on the attitude of my grandparents who were fen farmers. My grandfather, along with his 12 brothers and wife, earned their keep by plowing, cropping fields and generally laboring for the land owner. Their quality of life, especially if a bad frost struck, was quite poor compared to anything I or most people are used to. Yet in their description it is no better or worse than any modern walk of life. They found happiness and sadness that was the same as anyone has ever felt at any time, it was just absorbed from different things.

If nothing else, could it not be argued that more misery generates more happiness through comparison.

Dan.
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 10:59 am
@richrf,
richrf;78987 wrote:
Hi Dan,

I don't think of it as having more control, since I don't think we can control things since there are so many influences around us that affect who we are and what we can and cannot do. However, I do think that as we become more lucid (aware), we can become better navigators.

Much like a sailor, who can choose to navigate through a large way, around the wave, or away from the wave, we to have choices in which way to go, and the more experiences we accumulate (through many physical lives, maybe), the better navigators we may become.

Rich


Becomeing more lucid certainly does give us more control. If we are in a locked room with a number lock on the door. We can get out if we are lucid enough to know the number. But if not then we are stuck in the limited soundings.

I see life that we cant instantly become 100% lucid because that would involve your consciousness being the whole universe. But however. In the avatar of our bodys we can still expand consciousness. And its just as fun as controlling the whole universe really because its relative to all of humanity that are suffering the same limitations of there ego.
 
richrf
 
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 11:25 am
@glasstrees,
dwixi;79625 wrote:
Becomeing more lucid certainly does give us more control. If we are in a locked room with a number lock on the door. We can get out if we are lucid enough to know the number. But if not then we are stuck in the limited soundings.

I see life that we cant instantly become 100% lucid because that would involve your consciousness being the whole universe. But however. In the avatar of our bodys we can still expand consciousness. And its just as fun as controlling the whole universe really because its relative to all of humanity that are suffering the same limitations of there ego.


The issue I see is that the more one tries to control the more someone else loses control, so the tension/conflict is created between all those who are participating and desire control. This is conflict is inevitable [Heraclitus] and it creates change. The result is that no one can or will ever control, but each of us has a say in what is happening.

Rich
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 06:34 pm
@richrf,
richrf;79631 wrote:
The issue I see is that the more one tries to control the more someone else loses control, so the tension/conflict is created between all those who are participating and desire control. This is conflict is inevitable [Heraclitus] and it creates change. The result is that no one can or will ever control, but each of us has a say in what is happening.

Rich


Well that depends what the things you are controling are. Yeah sure if its people then they will loose control. But im talking about higher states of conciousness altogether. Seeing through the iliusion of separate consciousness. Working as one. All consciousness growing at the same rate so there wouldnt be need for manipulation as it would all be one unit.
 
 

 
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