Is it possible to make objective judgements of art?

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Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 03:01 pm
@xris,
xris;110948 wrote:
Giving the reader the knowledge to decide for themselves the value of the piece, is an art in itself. Critical teachers when informing are performing an objective lesson in informing you, how to have a valued subjective opinion.


I think I agree with this. I think "objective" is a good word for that which we share in common. The teacher uses words with common meanings. Appears in a public space. And strives, in most cases, toward the ideal of perfect objectivity.
 
Kroni
 
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 03:55 pm
@kennethamy,
You are confusing "better" with "creating emotion". If art is at its core something that instills emotion, than yes, a depiction of your family being harmed is more artistic than a picture that gives you indifference.
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 06:20 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;109612 wrote:
Discussion about art is certainly not science. It doesn't have the safeguards science has against biased judgments. But that need not mean that art criticism is intrinsically subjective, and that anything goes. There are intelligent judgments and insights, and the opposite. A wonderful discussion of this is:

David Hume of the standard of taste


That bit by hume is nice, thanks.

***

hue_man wrote:
By objective I mean can we make a neutral judgment and prove that one work of art is better than another? For example, we can prove that most people like one song more than another song, but does that mean that we can positively say that the more popular song is better than the less popular song, or only that more people think so?


Let's say we are told a joke, one that involves sherlock holmes and watson. If you know the characters you find it funny, or funnier than if you don't. Knowledge can aid in appreciation of the joke. I would say it's the same with art, when it involves more than pure sensation. But a piece of art that requires knowledge to appreciate is not better than one that doesn't (despite the common conception). So, experts can judge some art better than most people because they at least "get" the work. They are still a prone to a huge amount of bias of course. And it's my impression at least that a certain type of person becomes a film critic for example, or the process of becoming one changes the person, it would explain why "transformers" makes millions but gets panned by the critics anyway Very Happy

So it seems like we can't say that one song is intrinsically better than another, just that one is liked more by more people.

Well, that works for the "sensation" part of art at least. But artwork often has a message attached, and if that message can be objectively judged then so can the art. I think hume was saying something about this at the end of that piece. If a romance movie is saying something about human relationships that is false (shown false by psychology or neuroscience, say) then that would reflect poorly on the movie.
 
Quinn phil
 
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 07:10 pm
@hue-man,
Simply, no. All forms of art are subjective, for noone has a mind that holds objective opinions.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 07:16 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;110762 wrote:
"Objective" is a functional word. I agree with you there. But perfect objectivity is about as common in the real world as an ideal triangle.


I suppose you must mean that some uses of the word, "objective" make sense, but other uses do not. I agree. For instance, take the term, "tall". It makes sense to say that A is taller than B, or even that a basketball player is very tall. But it makes no sense at all to say that a basketball player is perfectly tall.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 07:31 pm
@hue-man,
To answer the question simply: Nes and Yo.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 07:32 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;111935 wrote:
To answer the question simply: Nes and Yo.


Yes, that is what I said. Nonsense.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 08:02 pm
@hue-man,
Is it possible to make an objective judgment about whether it is possible to make an objective value judgment of art? Is it possible to make an objective judgment about whether it is possible to make an objective judgment about whether it is possible to make an objective value judgment of art?Laughing

Yo and Nes.
 
 

 
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