How do you define human beauty.

@zolasdisciple,

i can see everyone is talking about what makes a human attractive, though im 100% sure there is no right or wrong because we all have different cultural opinion and standard... you could admire a mass amount of muscles or find them repulsive... you can argue that its facial symmetery but if you got a ****** up jaw and its symmetrical it dont make it pretty... itd be your preference to squared or rounded jawline...

i like realism and magazines photoshop most the pictures... it takes surgery to design beauty in america these days

but on another note... most people find mold repulsive... i love to leave things sit out and watch it mold... you ever see a slimfast left out and opened... its BEAUTIFUL!
but everyone else seemed to find it repulsive... and not just cause of the smell...

and my cats ear was infected and had to get puss pumped out and now his right ear is folded and funky... i find it adorable.... thats asymmetrical though

some people like freckles.. or beaty marks... that defies the symmetery theory too doesnt it

MODERATOR EDIT (Khethil): Obscenities

@zolasdisciple,

If you knew a person with a face so pretty that some people would stop and stare in the street to capture the mental image, some would even take out cameras, but that person was also a psychopath who regularly forced people to watch as their skin was torn from their body, would you describe them as a beautiful person? (sorry for the morbid feeling, I just wanted to emphasise)

@zolasdisciple,

I consider one's personal concept of "beauty" as being part of one's soul. I do this simply because I have yet to experience any sort of universal "beauty."

I don't find most babies beautiful, honestly. I also don't necessarily find symetrical people beautiful, in fact I typically find them to be more plain and dull than people who are not symetrical.

This does not, however, carry over into inanimate objects. One of the most beautiful non-human forms I think of off the top of my head is the double helix - entirely symetrical. While I find many asymetrical objects interesting (like the mystical pentagram on most copies of the Necronomicon), I do not really find them beautiful.

Anyway, I'm getting slightly off my point.

People I find beautiful, you (each of you) may not. Rather than trying to stuff these varies opinions into a standardized universal concept, I prefer simply to state that my sense of aesthetics is an innate part of my soul, and it is my soul which decides whether I find something beautiful or not. And your sense of aesthetics is an innate part of your soul as well.

@zolasdisciple,

Ah, but Muse, in tying your definition of beauty to the soul, you raise an interesting question: what is the soul? Does it even exist? In Buddhism, one of the core doctrines is anatman, literally the lack of atman or soul; Buddhists believe that there is no true soul, no part of Brahman locked within, and the perpetuation of this belief is the cause of all evil in the world, for by believing in the atman you believe in a sense of self, and by believing in the self, you can justify (the ends justify the means) amoral behavior; the Self inherently justifies amorality; therefore the Self is inherently amoral. And I find it hard to reconcile amorality and beauty.

Still, human beauty is an incredibly effusive topic. One of the reasons is because there are a number of emotions that can create a sense of beauty. Passion, respect, humility, self-identification can all create their own forms and ideas of beauty, and in the human mind, all these forms coexist as one.

@zolasdisciple,

I reject the liklihood of this "anatman." I do believe that something we typically name the soul exists, and I believe that a persons sense of aesthetics has its source there.

I am no Buddhist, and I disagree with them on more than one point. I do believe in the self. I do not believe that suffering should be negated.

I also have no problem reconciling amorality (or, what I believe you intended to state: immorality) and beauty at all. The way blood runs can be beautiful, even if it was shed in an immoral or amoral manner.

@MuseEvolution,

I agree with you about anatman, but the only way to truly invalidate it in methodology is to 1) understand it, 2) undermine its premises, and 3) advance a solution of your own.

I did intend to state amorality. Immorality is a distinct subset of amorality. An actively corrupt minister is immoral; the same minister who, while not actively corrupt, watches the institutions of his country go to hell is amoral. Amorality implies a lack of a sense of moral direction, and I believe anatman implies that the idea of the Self absolves us of the responsibility of understanding moral direction, thereby creating amorality--not just immorality, but the worse sin, apathy in the face of sin--and it is that that makes it the greatest sin.

Muse, what I mean when I say amorality and beauty is dichotomous lies in the emotional realm: one who's amoral, apathetic, doesn't give a rat's ass about what's going on in the world, is, from the perspective of an action-oriented mind, the ugliest.

@zolasdisciple,

As to anatman, I'd ratehr think it would be up to someone proposing its existence to validate it before I would be required to take pains to invalidate it.

I see. I was defining 'amoral' as simply a lack of morals (rather than a lack of a moral compass).

Even using the word amoral, I have no problem considering that a sense of (or even an objective - or subjective - presence of) beauty could exist amidst amorality.

@Khethil,

Khethil wrote:

Yes... completely, and/or specific aspects of human beauty. There are so many! One could almost loosely-categorize these as expression, form, motion, aura, gender-specific, sexual, health, pain & suffering, etc.,etc.

The photo of your son, *very* nice! Ahhh... such memories. When my two sons were babies, and actually throughout their growing (and to today!) there's a special significance of each view, each pose, expression and look. The parent, I think, experiences a deeply-attached sense of "beauty" in their children. But aside from this ownership-aspect, that photo is awesome! Unabashed happiness, freshness, health, grace of form. Very nice indeed (I miss my kids :crying:)

Thanks

I miss my kids too. One of the hardest things about getting older.

@sarathustrah,

Everything is beautiful, in its own way. -Ray Stevens.

@Elmud,

Elmud wrote:

Everything is beautiful, in its own way. -Ray Stevens.

Seriously? Well, I suppose Detroit is beautiful in a tragic way.

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

Seriously? Well, I suppose Detroit is beautiful in a tragic way.

LOL. human beauty T, human beauty. lol.

@zolasdisciple,

I think beauty is what is underneath the physical appearance, for instance, you can have a really good looking man but he is so arrogant it puts me off and I wont look at him again, I find intellectual men attractive and good company. I think a person has to have more than good looks to be beautiful and not necessarilly have good looks to be attractive.

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

I think beauty is what is underneath the physical appearance, for instance, you can have a really good looking man but he is so arrogant it puts me off and I wont look at him again, I find intellectual men attractive and good company. I think a person has to have more than good looks to be beautiful and not necessarilly have good looks to be attractive.

I agree with you Caroline. I do not like the u word. Maybe displeasing is a better word. It really is what is inside that projects human beauty. Although, exterior beauty ain't bad either.:bigsmile:

@Aedes,

I don't believe that there's a universal standard by which we can judge human beauty. Some say the facial symmetry, flowing hair (mainly for women), and other features are universal standards for beauty. Unlike morality, another value, I don't believe that there is anyway to justify the universality of the idea of beauty.

@Elmud,

Elmud;59797 wrote:

I agree with you Caroline. I do not like the u word. Maybe displeasing is a better word. It really is what is inside that projects human beauty. Although, exterior beauty ain't bad either.:bigsmile:

Yes, but I think it can be ruined by say arrogance.

@zolasdisciple,

How about Physiognomy?

It entails not the just outward appearance, but expressions, mannerisms and manifestations of one's inward self

@Elmud,

Elmud;59797 wrote:

I agree with you Caroline. I do not like the u word. Maybe displeasing is a better word. It really is what is inside that projects human beauty. Although, exterior beauty ain't bad either.:bigsmile:

One can be perfectly flawed, why can not a person be beautifully ugly?

"How do I define human beauty?". I dont define human beauty based upon the preceptions of others, but upon the complexness of the dynamics of there body. So what "I" define it as, is far different from others.

"How do I define human inner-beauty?" Well here is a poem about what bases I defines human inner-beauty upon.

What Is Good
By, John Boyle O'Reilly

Order, said the law court
Knowledge, said the school
Truth, said the wise man
Pleasure, said the fool
Love, said the maiden
Beauty, said the page
Freedom, said the dreamer
Home, said the sage
Fame, said the soldier
Equity, said the seer
Spake my heart fully sad:
"The answer is not here."

Then within my bosom
Softly this I heard:
Each heart holds the secret:
Kindness is the word.

And kindness is the base that I define human inner-beauty upon.

@Khethil,

Khethil;65586 wrote:

How about Physiognomy?

It entails not the just outward appearance, but expressions, mannerisms and manifestations of one's inward self

It's true that a person's character can effect your perspective of their outward appearance, but we're just talking about superficial beauty, not ideal beauty.

@zolasdisciple,

Quote:

Yes, but I think it can be ruined by say arrogance.

Oh I can be arrogant sometimes, I think everyone probably has been at some point. It might even be difficult to determine if they are exhibiting confidence or arrogance.

I don't know how to quantify beauty, but I know when I see it. I can't explain what I see, but that's the beauty of it.

Sometimes picking it apart ruins it. Sometimes knowing what it is that is appealing or attractive, might make you disgusted or cheapen it in some way.

I can even find beauty in conflict, a place where there is disruption or chaos.

EDIT:

I want to ask, has anyone seen the famous spider test?

They took a few female spiders to test their reactions to male spiders to see exactly what those female spiders were looking for in a mate.

As it turns out, the more broad and defined front two legs called the palps of the male spider the more "attractive" the male was to the female spider.

It just so happens that the male uses these palps for sexual reproduction too. If he is not careful with the position that he choose for sex, he might also turn out to be her next meal. A fate I can't say is very appealing. Some males do manage to survive to copulate another day.

@Krumple,

Krumple;65648 wrote:

Oh I can be arrogant sometimes, I think everyone probably has been at some point. It might even be difficult to determine if they are exhibiting confidence or arrogance.

Yes I agree with you there in that it is in everybody. I meant extreme arrogance. I remember seeing this really good looking young guy and he totally knew it, came accross so big headed to the point it was ugly, he had nothing other than that in his personality so I didn't give him a second look.

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How do you define human beauty.

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