Am I a Hippie?

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Khethil
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 05:42 am
A little over a year ago, I took a business trip to L.A. The company I was with had a branch there and I was (again) called over to resolve to IT issues they had. I hate traveling... after 20 years in the military I'd thoroughly had my fill of flying.

As we flew in to LAX I found myself absently staring out the window, it was sunny and clear with a good view all around. Below, I saw what seemed an unending sea of concrete and asphalt. Only a few trees here and there with miles of cars. Through the noxious haze I saw mountains raped and scarred with homes, businesses and other clutter. Now... typically I'm not given to hugging the trees too enthusiastically, but I found this whole sight very disturbing. It was... so much ugliness... so much trash; I found myself genuinely moved to tears beholding the very environment so many of us are flocking to.

I now live in a small rural town in Missouri; yes, on purpose. Outside is a veritable jungle: packed trees, grasses and vines with every variety of birds, small animals and deer. Trees grow up, old then die in place... falling over eachother to return to the soil. Everything's entwined with vines. The air is so thick with life; a thick 'sweet' smell of lilacs, grass and moist soil. My wife and I sit out on Friday afternoons, beers in hand, and just sit... watching the wind blow and enjoying the silence. After months of living here we still end up like this, both staring out, with the only conversation being each of us occasionally exclaiming, "wow".

Now... this has *never* been me. I've been a city-guy whose loved being close to others. I've always loved my gadgets and have been generally proud of 'civilization' so to speak. Aside from all the 'personal' issues I may be having, what (specifically) makes 'natural' settings so appealing to so many? Why is Green so appealing? Is this genetic knowledge of 'health'?

I've often wondered this... Loving the Natural Beauty of our Planet: Learned or Ingrained? Any thoughts?
 
urangutan
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 06:06 am
@Khethil,
Is that new meaning too, California Dreamin'.
What is the, Winters Day.

You will know you're a hippie if you think of Simon and Garfunkel.
 
Vasska
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 06:27 am
@Khethil,
Nah, you just got sick and fed up of the life in the big city. More people have that effect, same as rural people going to the cities. Your concern of ugliness is just sheer morals playing their parts in the play.

You've got to choose between either in the city or out of the city. Some like me will stay in the city, others will leave the city behind, with all it's comforts, and move to the more peaceful places like your current rural town.
 
de budding
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 07:55 am
@Vasska,
I find equal beauty and elegance in all scenes. Cambridge has a wonderful market square, and when it rains with the market on, it is like something off a classic adventure game (broken sword, monkey island), as well I walk to uni and cut through an industrial estate and it is all 'urban decay', the students throw their old sofas and bikes down the backs of the industrial estate, there is an old train track which runs parallel to the estate and tones of warehouses with huge corrugated-iron doors.
If it is a grey day and a lorry pulls in causing one of these massive house-sized rolling doors to crunch into action it is just as aesthetically beautiful as the market place.
Also where I live- outside Cambridge in the country side, is again just as nice, I sleep with my windows as far open as I can every night to hear the owls and in the morning to hear our canaries sing. The scenery around where I live is astounding, but no better or worse than the industrial and town scenes I enjoy on my way to uni.

Beauty is everywhere and in everything I think.
Dan,
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 02:09 pm
@de budding,
Quote:
Beauty is everywhere and in everything I think.


Then you've never been to LA.

I really do enjoy all of the marvelous gadgets and what nots of the modern world. But the bottom line is that the way life is lead in modern, developed nations is unsustainable. While we trudge on with this caricature of living, we are destroying the planet - the planet's ability to harbor our species and our species' ability to survive on this planet.

Simple, natural living is appealing because it is sustainable. It is a living we can handle on our own. The big city living, while great fun, is not something we can carry on without significant support from others - which usually demands that we pay the others a sum of money.
 
Vasska
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 02:26 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
Then you've never been to LA.

I really do enjoy all of the marvelous gadgets and what nots of the modern world. But the bottom line is that the way life is lead in modern, developed nations is unsustainable. While we trudge on with this caricature of living, we are destroying the planet - the planet's ability to harbor our species and our species' ability to survive on this planet.

Simple, natural living is appealing because it is sustainable. It is a living we can handle on our own. The big city living, while great fun, is not something we can carry on without significant support from others - which usually demands that we pay the others a sum of money.


A can partly agree, this is the case with the old world. The new world (China) has been build toward the future with lot's of green and renewable energy. Their ways of achieving this is something else.

The Simple natural living you find appealing is only possible on wide scale if humanity declined with billions. Letting everyone live the natural living is impossible with 6 to 7 billion people.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 03:19 pm
@Vasska,
Quote:
A can partly agree, this is the case with the old world. The new world (China) has been build toward the future with lot's of green and renewable energy. Their ways of achieving this is something else.


China is terribly dirty. Olympic athletes have decided not to go because of the pollution. They do not rely on renewable energy, they rely on coal and petroleum. The Chinese government has systematically demolished a nation that was sustainable, Tibet.

Quote:
The Simple natural living you find appealing is only possible on wide scale if humanity declined with billions. Letting everyone live the natural living is impossible with 6 to 7 billion people.


Nothing is impossible. Difficult, yes, this is true. And most would simply refuse. We like our cars.
 
de budding
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 03:45 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
Then you've never been to LA.

I really do enjoy all of the marvelous gadgets and what nots of the modern world. But the bottom line is that the way life is lead in modern, developed nations is unsustainable. While we trudge on with this caricature of living, we are destroying the planet - the planet's ability to harbor our species and our species' ability to survive on this planet.

Simple, natural living is appealing because it is sustainable. It is a living we can handle on our own. The big city living, while great fun, is not something we can carry on without significant support from others - which usually demands that we pay the others a sum of money.


Very true, but I find the emotional provocation from the negatives as moving as the positives, urban decay and the destruction of our species is just more beautiful. I guess I don't let practical implications alter the aesthetic, the painting is no less beautiful if it is difficult to hang.

But I'm not iggnorant to the practical implications...promise Very Happy, I appreciate and agree with what you say.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 27 May, 2008 04:12 pm
@de budding,
Quote:
Very true, but I find the emotional provocation from the negatives as moving as the positives, urban decay and the destruction of our species is just more beautiful. I guess I don't let practical implications alter the aesthetic, the painting is no less beautiful if it is difficult to hang.


Like da Vinci's sketches of worn, aged, and appropriately labeled as ugly old men. Wink
 
Vasska
 
Reply Wed 28 May, 2008 03:07 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
China is terribly dirty. Olympic athletes have decided not to go because of the pollution. They do not rely on renewable energy, they rely on coal and petroleum. The Chinese government has systematically demolished a nation that was sustainable, Tibet.

At the moment they rely on it, for economical growth. but their green projects are huge and all other parts of China can be build green. Some have already build this way.

Olympic Athletes decided not to go because of the bad human rights in China. The pollution thing is something else. America today is a bigger polluter and gets away with it, while China does not. Hypocrisy.

Quote:
Nothing is impossible. Difficult, yes, this is true. And most would simply refuse. We like our cars.

Making sure that 7 billion people start to live green is impossible. Almost everything we rely on today is not green, and cannot be green unless we give up a lot of luxuries and start living the simple life, which billions won't do.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Wed 28 May, 2008 02:02 pm
@Vasska,
Quote:
At the moment they rely on it, for economical growth. but their green projects are huge and all other parts of China can be build green. Some have already build this way.


Right, for China to sustain it's current growth they must continue to completely ignore environmental factors. For China to adopt environmentally friendly policies would severely cripple their economic growth, which China depends on as they secure their place as a super power. I'm sure the Chinese government has made examples of green progress, but these examples are no comfort in the face of the communist government's clear economic policy - full steam ahead.

China could adopt greener practices, but they won't do so as long as the money is pouring in.

Quote:
Olympic Athletes decided not to go because of the bad human rights in China. The pollution thing is something else. America today is a bigger polluter and gets away with it, while China does not. Hypocrisy.


For the Olympic athletes, it's a mixed bag. Depends on which one we are talking about. As for pollution, you are right, America pollutes more. America is also more developed. China will soon surpass my homeland for the top spot. And as China continues to grow without restraint China will very soon overshadow our pollution issues.

Oh, and we have far greater pollution controls over here. The fact that we pollute more is a direct result of how developed the nations are.

Quote:
Making sure that 7 billion people start to live green is impossible. Almost everything we rely on today is not green, and cannot be green unless we give up a lot of luxuries and start living the simple life, which billions won't do.


Right. If we could make the change over night, most would refuse.
 
No0ne
 
Reply Thu 29 May, 2008 03:46 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:
A little over a year ago, I took a business trip to L.A. The company I was with had a branch there and I was (again) called over to resolve to IT issues they had. I hate traveling... after 20 years in the military I'd thoroughly had my fill of flying.

As we flew in to LAX I found myself absently staring out the window, it was sunny and clear with a good view all around. Below, I saw what seemed an unending sea of concrete and asphalt. Only a few trees here and there with miles of cars. Through the noxious haze I saw mountains raped and scarred with homes, businesses and other clutter. Now... typically I'm not given to hugging the trees too enthusiastically, but I found this whole sight very disturbing. It was... so much ugliness... so much trash; I found myself genuinely moved to tears beholding the very environment so many of us are flocking to.

I now live in a small rural town in Missouri; yes, on purpose. Outside is a veritable jungle: packed trees, grasses and vines with every variety of birds, small animals and deer. Trees grow up, old then die in place... falling over eachother to return to the soil. Everything's entwined with vines. The air is so thick with life; a thick 'sweet' smell of lilacs, grass and moist soil. My wife and I sit out on Friday afternoons, beers in hand, and just sit... watching the wind blow and enjoying the silence. After months of living here we still end up like this, both staring out, with the only conversation being each of us occasionally exclaiming, "wow".

Now... this has *never* been me. I've been a city-guy whose loved being close to others. I've always loved my gadgets and have been generally proud of 'civilization' so to speak. Aside from all the 'personal' issues I may be having, what (specifically) makes 'natural' settings so appealing to so many? Why is Green so appealing? Is this genetic knowledge of 'health'?

I've often wondered this... Loving the Natural Beauty of our Planet: Learned or Ingrained? Any thoughts?


You are, if you say you are, therefore you are.

other's will say you are, if you love peace and love to share it with other's, have long hair dress in some forms of clothing,

they are just judgen a book by it's cover, and Im sure you have seen some weird title's, yet once you opened it and read a bit, you seen it wasnt what you first thought it was, same thing go'se with the perception of people by there way's of thought and philosophy of life.

mainly if you are called a hippe, and you dont think you are one, and you dont call your self one, then the other person calling you one clearly dosnt know you or respect what you think, and is acting like a high school student that hasnt grown up and is still acting like a kid(jock's,nerd's,goth's, that kind of child like behavoir)

Adult's are mainly the same as a kid in every way, it's just an adult think's that he's not acting or is a kid, but also most kid's share that same thought, adult's just play a difrent game than kid's, and everyone can realate to which way's it is, and in which way's there not.

Yet man was told to name everything, i gusse people thought that it was needed to break people into difrent section's based on there non-violent action's and habbit's and preferd liked thing's. hence if i huged a tree because of some reason of philosophy, then i gusse im a tree huger? Well if i drive my car everyday would you call that person a name other, than the name there parents gave them? and even if you did it wouldnt matter much, people's look's and action's change's peoples perception of us, i get it alot with my long hair, even tho Im more skilled and more of a pro than a person with shrot hair, i would be looked at difrently and judged before i was truly known..

I dont see a need to play follow the leader, and cut my hair like everyone els because there false preset perception's that they have of people with long hair. applie this to people thinking that you are a hippe

Also ^^ i keep my long hair to show that i control my free will and it is not infulanced by the will of other's, as long as your action's are non-violent and dont take from other's without given back to them in some way, other wise i would never support such behavior :cool:
 
Vasska
 
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 04:23 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
Right, for China to sustain it's current growth they must continue to completely ignore environmental factors. For China to adopt environmentally friendly policies would severely cripple their economic growth, which China depends on as they secure their place as a super power. I'm sure the Chinese government has made examples of green progress, but these examples are no comfort in the face of the communist government's clear economic policy - full steam ahead.

China could adopt greener practices, but they won't do so as long as the money is pouring in.


For some reason my previous comment did not get trough. Let's go at it again. China has put a stop to their economical growth, and learned from the mistakes made by the west by avoiding lot's of problems. They take a slower (but still fast) road to becoming a superpower. Their approach to humans and the west has changed considerably the last 20 years.

The Chinese have green projects and cities far larger then American or European equivalents. China is starting to lose their communist grip on the country for another

Quote:
For the Olympic athletes, it's a mixed bag. Depends on which one we are talking about. As for pollution, you are right, America pollutes more. America is also more developed. China will soon surpass my homeland for the top spot. And as China continues to grow without restraint China will very soon overshadow our pollution issues. Oh, and we have far greater pollution controls over here. The fact that we pollute more is a direct result of how developed the nations are.


Well let's say we are all hypocrites here. The Olympics have been held in many countries that were at that time controversial, like China is now. It's becoming an never-ending circle.

The pollution issue, America pollutes in the wrong ways; China does it to develop, America does it out of comfort. Gas prices were low, and therefore it was no problem to buy huge cars riding 1 on 4, pollution was something many people don't care about. (Europe pollutes to, but our cars are somewhat more gas-friendly because of the high prices.)
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 01:19 pm
@Vasska,
Quote:
For some reason my previous comment did not get trough. Let's go at it again. China has put a stop to their economical growth, and learned from the mistakes made by the west by avoiding lot's of problems. They take a slower (but still fast) road to becoming a superpower. Their approach to humans and the west has changed considerably the last 20 years.


Is this a hypothetical situation you are trying to get me to consider? That I can follow. Reality, on the other hand, has China growing at an extremely fast rate with almost no regard for the environment. I'm sure Chinese propoganda would have us believe otherwise, but that reality is sure hard to get around.

It's like the US government trying to sell a war on terror when the US is the largest terrorist supporter on the planet.

Quote:
The pollution issue, America pollutes in the wrong ways; China does it to develop, America does it out of comfort. Gas prices were low, and therefore it was no problem to buy huge cars riding 1 on 4, pollution was something many people don't care about. (Europe pollutes to, but our cars are somewhat more gas-friendly because of the high prices.)


China, on purpose, develops at such a pace that the environment is terribly scarred for the growth. The Chinese government knows exactly what they are doing.

And yes, rah rah, the US government is a joke. Wonderful, but none of the US shortcomings make up for the Chinese problems.
 
Vasska
 
Reply Sat 31 May, 2008 02:50 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Quote:
Is this a hypothetical situation you are trying to get me to consider? That I can follow. Reality, on the other hand, has China growing at an extremely fast rate with almost no regard for the environment. I'm sure Chinese propoganda would have us believe otherwise, but that reality is sure hard to get around. It's like the US government trying to sell a war on terror when the US is the largest terrorist supporter on the planet.
I'm not saying the Chinese government is made of treehuggers, they do their part to pollute China. However China launches and supports many Green projects. The Chinese government launched a 3 Billion dollar Fund for green projects. Europe and America would have used that many for non-green projects. China plans to invest 200 billion dollar over the next 15 years to renewable energy. China has over 40.7% of all the green projects carried out on earth.

Sure the Chinese environment does pollute, but so did the European and American one when they started out. It unfortunately is a necessary evil.

Quote:
China, on purpose, develops at such a pace that the environment is terribly scarred for the growth. The Chinese government knows exactly what they are doing.
If you can grow, you grow. The simple rule of economics. The Chinese government knows what it is doing, but they also are looking into the future. The power that the Chinese government has is that they can do everything. Europe and America have people behind people that pull strings and lobbyists that push laws that are beneficial to only a certain amount of people. European and American governments are powerless and no unity. China - although forced - has this unity and power.

Quote:

And yes, rah rah, the US government is a joke. Wonderful, but none of the US shortcomings make up for the Chinese problems.
I'm not only attacking US governments, but also European governments. Both have their shortcomings, and so does China. But unlike America and Europe China wants to invest heavily into the future.
 
No0ne
 
Reply Sat 31 May, 2008 12:29 pm
@Vasska,
Hmmm... Yet, China in some way's is completly following the foot step's that america left behind in the past, *note america went into a great depression in those foot step's, China could face such a down fall within it's mid class aswell. the stock market was not the only thing the led to the great depresstion...

But it's so true that China is burning coal at an rate that would greatly effect the future world weather, and even short term smog effect's are present as we speak, yet China has no other option's to fuel it's growth in the short term, and oil will seemenly be a death wish for global economies that must have it to keep eveything turning as is...if Sadi oil get's attacked and start's puting out 0barrel's of oil a day, the world market's would be at a price war's to get the last drop's, and in short term it would send china& america and most other nation's into a deep great depresstion (yet not brazill, because they dont use forgien oil's they make there own fuel's from plant's grown within there nation ^.^) well it's kinda grim to talk about the worst case things that could go wrong, yet it's not to hard to stop Sadi oil production, so it would be wise for nation's to have a back up plan for a rainy day, kinda like a starwars thing, instead of making a clone army for a rainy day for the peace loving jedi, make a army/fleet of elctric car's and power station's(which you hand turn a 3-way hand and foot crank that turn's a generator to rechange your car therfore you are used to power your car for a small monthly fee of course would only take about 5 to 10 min or less depending on the crank's gear's and resestance ^.^ then there would be the job in exchanging the old car's for new car's which would give people alot of new job's doing zombie like grunt work. yet a great plan for a rainy day is allway's nice to prevent a total colapse into utter chaos...wish they put those into china's prison's 3 hour's a day turning a generator in sync with all other prison's each working when the other is not therefore geting a constant charnge flowing ^.^ work those gerbal's also that would help found green project's by selling the energy)

The world just need's to get creative find new method's of harvesting energy to get people to point A, to point B, and back, and everywhere in between, and a way to get china off there addiction of coal... I live in the Northwest in Washington and the jet stream come's right from china, and dump's right into the mountain's where I live, so there action's do highyl effect the air where I live, and even that air could have chemicals bonded to the dust partical's with the water vaper's in those clound's which in turn fall's into the lake's river's and ground, effecting the whole Northwest Eco System... Ty China why dont you learn from America's mistake's ^.^ PLZ
 
Vasska
 
Reply Sat 31 May, 2008 04:06 pm
@No0ne,
China makes mistakes that are quite bad, and comparable with American and European mistakes in the 19th and 20th century. I won't deny that.

China however has like almost the whole world signed the Kyoto protocols, except (political) America who wants to be the stubborn kid like always. China launches green project after green project and makes long term commitments to green projects. They invest heavily in Africa, Europe and even America. America with war president Bush does nothing but fighting an enemy that does not exist, spending all their money on it.

The problem we have is that America is the number one polluter. The world had the resources to deal with a great amount of it, however now China has come up and starts to pollute too, making the effects more visible then ever before. So not only China is to blame. America should sign the Kyoto protocol, and adopt green projects, instead of blaming China that does everything in its power to make green projects work within the next 15 years, despite their terrible pollution.
 
 

 
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