Holiday20310401;60621 wrote: nameless wrote:
A Planck moment is the smallest quanta of 'time' that retains any 'integrity'.
Interesting. So if we gave the planck unit a value of 1, do we know what 0.75 is like?
There is nothing to exist less than "1".
Remember, that what we are speaking of, is existence as perceived (perceiver and perceived are one! there can be no existence unperceived), Mindstuff, 'information waves' (perceived by Conscious Perspectives (us).
It is at the '1', that the 'information waves' can be perceived. One 'moment' = one percept(ion)!
Less than one percept
/moment can not, of course, be perceived, and, therefore, cannot exist.
Why is it that the integrity falls apart at all, and why at the level that it does?
The question is, rather, why is there any perceivable 'integrity' at all (which is impossible in something as perfectly symmetrical as Mind/Consciousness), when the Mind is 'chaos', pure 'undifferentiated
potential', completely featureless, qualityless. Mind becomes 'differentiated, by the inherent limitations of Conscious Perspective. Like the 'flaws' (crazing) in perfectly clear glass allow us to see it, the limitations of Perspective allow it to 'see' Mind.
Quote: nameless wrote:
Quanta are discrete and deny any possible 'flow' (as anything other than in the imagination/perspective).
I don't understand, I mean, I understand this concept, but why any possible flow?
Well, as we perceive 'flow', it exists. So, I withdraw my statement of "any possible" flow. The "flow" of 'time' associated with a diffferent Perspective of the universe every moment, is perceived by us. As such it exists. If I perceive a purple pig with three heads, it exists, and is a 'feature'
of existence. Hence, 'time' and all associated phenomena (linearity, motion, existence as it is commonly perceived, etc...) are 'features'
of the complete universe. Hydrogen is a 'feature' of water, yet 'needs' the Perspectives of another hydrogen and an oxygen atom to completely describe (chemically) 'water'. Of course much more than that is needed to fully define and describe water; all possible Perspectives, actually, from molecular and particle physics to poetry and swimming...
Sure at the causal level of the quantum world I understand, but why in the macro world is it assumed so too?
There is no 'causal level' of the quantum world (other than in your understanding, of course, a 'feature'...).
There is no inherent division between the tiny and the large but completely arbitrarily/synthetically. It seems a silly and unsupportable notion to imagine two distinct worlds due to size differences. "As above, so below!" It is one existence, One Mind, one universe, many Perspectives of One Consciousness;
Let's say the purely discrete causal level has a value of 0, just for the sake of it, not trying to imply anything whatsoever. And the macro level (our level for example) has a level of say, 100. Upward causation is the process of going from 0-->100. Downward causation is the process of going from 100-->0.
There's that 'causal level' again... The only 'causing' that I can almost accept (the word would have to be redefined) is that existence is 'caused' by perception of it. But, synchronicity, as the basic nature if existence, cannot bear any hierarchy of moments. For any 'causation' at all, there must be actual linearity. There can certainly be 'causation' (and 'time' and 'motion', etc...) for/from the Perspective that perceives 'linearity'.
And I'm assuming of course that if 'integrity' were valued as is here, it would have a domain; I mean, if it has a domain in the quantum direction, being the planck length, then why not in the macro direction, like Olber's Bubble or something like that.
I think that I spoke to this when I spoke of 'integrity' being the level of perception, above.
If we assign integrity as a y value, and the causation value as an x value, would there be any correlations, or can this be modeled by some form of measurement; or are causal 'levels' just some idealistic notion that has been turned into an assumption, and that's the fallacy you've been trying to drill into my head.
First, I hate 'assigning values'. What is, is, as it is, and suits me fine. It seems too artificial, to me, to 'assign values'. I understand the 'value' of doing so in aid of logic and conceptualization, though, but it is not my style.
I'm sorry if I appear to be trying to drill anything into your head. I thought, by your intelligent questioning, that you are interested in understanding 'this' Perspective. I'm not looking for converts, just offering some food for thought (and a glimpse into the 'future') as my own thoughts 'evolve'.
Is it possible that when talking about upward causation and downward causation, the processes themselves are intrinsically discontinuous?
Playing mix-n-match, I don't see how anything that is discontinuous can be considered causative. If there is no 'connection' between moments/perceptions wherein one thing can ('touch') cause another, 'causality' is again, moot.
When physicists (you seem to know everything about this stuff so I'm comfortable asking you) found this quantum length, does it apply to width and height too, or is it relevant to dimension?
Far from knowing everything, perhaps touching some 'high points'...
I am less familiar with 'Planck length' (look it up, wiki should be fairly simple reading), and the physics involved. I'd imagine that 'length' can be considered in all directions; sideways length is 'width'...
I do notice it on the buffet, but seem to have gotten a full nutrition without too much of it. It has not been a particularly relevent or fruitful (yet?) area of study. 'Length' seems a feature of existence/Perspective. There are many 'features' to studt for those interested. I'd imagine that all sincere studies of any features will lead 'here'. All roads do lead to Rome, but one cannot travel, nor need to travel, more than one.
So how should one go about transcending the "linear perspective" of causality?
I have found moments of meditation can allow the experience of nonlinearity.
Sometimes it just happens naturally (ok, all the time) that I can be aware of various 'moments' simultaneously. That is what 'prophesy' is.
Ever had a feeling of dejas vous? That might be an experience of non-linearity.
A very good question deserving more time that I'm offering right now as you ahve asked many good questions and I've been here on this for over an hour expending much energy on thought. Perhaps more later...