what makes human life more valuable than spiders'?

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Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 02:03 pm
I was thinking about this while killing a spider one day. I was quite scared to touch it or smash and burst it (urrgh) so I hoovered it! Well it must have been a shock and torture for it and I'm a bit sorry, but I find myself thinking, "well it's only a spider..."

I wouldn't have got over it so easily killing another person though.

Why is a person's life better than a spider's (I'm sure it is!!)? Because we are bigger? Live longer? Are cleverer? Or do we only think it because we are human ourselves?

(:popcorn:I just found out there were loads more smilies than I thought and I just love this one called popcorn.:offtopic:)
 
Aedes
 
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 02:07 pm
@Shinhyung,
Ask a spider his perspective on the question Wink
 
Krumple
 
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 02:13 pm
@Shinhyung,
Shinhyung;88093 wrote:
what makes human life more valuable than spiders?


Self interest and superiority complex. But if you were the size of the spider would you become it's next meal? It is easy to hate and dislike and much more difficult to respect and let be.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 02:20 pm
@Shinhyung,
Shinhyung;88093 wrote:
"well it's only a spider..."


When going to war, one of the functions of propaganda is to teach us to say "well it's only a (insert relevant ethnic group here) . . . ."
 
manored
 
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 03:17 pm
@Shinhyung,
Shinhyung;88093 wrote:
I was thinking about this while killing a spider one day. I was quite scared to touch it or smash and burst it (urrgh) so I hoovered it! Well it must have been a shock and torture for it and I'm a bit sorry, but I find myself thinking, "well it's only a spider..."

I wouldn't have got over it so easily killing another person though.

Why is a person's life better than a spider's (I'm sure it is!!)? Because we are bigger? Live longer? Are cleverer? Or do we only think it because we are human ourselves?
There are many reasons to not care for spiders, so I will give just one =)

There is no way we could live caring for spiders, we probally never notice most of our spider murders, the amount of care we would need to not kill spiders is humanely impossible.

Reminds me of a visit to a buddhist temple where there was a sign asking you to not step in the ants, what was impossible since the ants were all over the path.

Aedes;88094 wrote:
Ask a spider his perspective on the question Wink
Nice idea =)

"Do you care if I kill you? No answer means no"

Krumple;88097 wrote:
Self interest and superiority complex. But if you were the size of the spider would you become it's next meal? It is easy to hate and dislike and much more difficult to respect and let be.
I think in the case of spiders its just self interest. I dont kill spiders to affirm my superiority, I kill then because they bite and inject poison on me. Same goes for mosquitos =)

TickTockMan;88101 wrote:
When going to war, one of the functions of propaganda is to teach us to say "well it's only a (insert relevant ethnic group here) . . . ."
Yeah... I wish people were at least honest then they wage war, admiting that the war is based on self-interest rather than the fact that the other side is the "axis of evil" or something like it. Off course, it would be hard to get people to want to fight that way, and if you can admit that to ourself and your people, you can likely find a peacefull solution... unless you are the "axis of evil" in the other country =)

My personal reason to not care for spiders is that I only care for human beings, caring for other animals only in how important they are to humans.
 
richrf
 
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 10:08 pm
@Shinhyung,
Shinhyung;88093 wrote:
Why is a person's life better than a spider's (I'm sure it is!!)? Because we are bigger? Live longer? Are cleverer? Or do we only think it because we are human ourselves?


Good question. After some thought, I the reason is that humans share more with each other so they tend to preserve that which they are sharing.

I think it is probably similar for most species. Rupert Sheldrake has this concept of morphic resonance that comes in handy for this kind of question. In his model, we are sharing similar resonance, and therefore consider us more as One.

Just a thought for a good questions. Thanks.

Rich
 
prothero
 
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 10:57 pm
@Shinhyung,
The overall level of novelty, creativity and experience.

No one would save the spider and lose the child.

Wherever our ethical notions come from, humans outweigh spiders except possibly in some theoretical debates.
 
William
 
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 11:08 pm
@Shinhyung,
Shinhyung;88093 wrote:
.......... "well it's only a spider..."


I am sure there are those who will find a hard time understanding your sentiment especially after they have met a brown recluse. But alas, perhaps not, as a great many believe "well.....it's only a fetus". :duke-it-out:

William
 
manored
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 09:29 am
@William,
William;88198 wrote:
I am sure there are those who will find a hard time understanding your sentiment especially after they have met a brown recluse. But alas, perhaps not as a great many believe "well.....it's only a fetus".

William
Making the decision about spiders its easy, but as we get closer and closer of ourselves, it keeps getting harder and harder =)
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 12:11 pm
@manored,
manored;88112 wrote:
I think in the case of spiders its just self interest. I dont kill spiders to affirm my superiority, I kill then because they bite and inject poison on me. Same goes for mosquitos =)


Well I have never been bitten by a spider and I just let them do their thing. Have you actually been bitten by a spider?
 
richrf
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 02:14 pm
@Krumple,
On my balcony, I leave the spiders alone. They keep the mosquitoes away. Thank you spiders.

Rich
 
peter74
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 06:17 pm
@Shinhyung,
I think all life is valuable including mine, so if a big spider threatens me with venom or other poisionous thing, my swatter is always available.

Otherwise, I'll try to transport the spider outside my home.
 
Leonard
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 09:06 pm
@Shinhyung,
-Human life is no different than a spider's life, but it would be much easier for us to kill a spider than vice versa. Perhaps it is because we are the only 'intelligent' or 'sapient' beings on the planet, though some would argue we have yet to find intelligent life on earth. I wouldn't crush the spider, unless it posed a threat to me. It makes webs and kills even more annoying things like mosquitoes and gnats, so I just let spiders be. If we find it right to crush spiders, then maybe some unknown giant beings somewhere would find it right to crush us.
-Personally, I find humans to be more destructive than spiders. Maybe it should be them killing us in that case.
 
richrf
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 09:36 pm
@Leonard,
Leonard;88402 wrote:
-Personally, I find humans to be more destructive than spiders. Maybe it should be them killing us in that case.


I was reading an interesting article today in the Wall Street Journal about crazy ants that are on a rampage in Texas and Florida and even go after fire ants which are also on a rampage in Texas and other southern states. There is nothing that humans can do to stop them. They just take over what they want.

I know that humans have this amazing ability for self-congratulation of their species. I wonder whether the ants are doing the same thing right now? You know, I wouldn't be surprised. They should eat some humble pie sometimes.

Rich
 
alcaz0r
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 10:11 pm
@Shinhyung,
We can easily conceive of the situation that another being finds itself in, for instance, the peril the spider is in as we consider whether to kill it. In order for this idea of peril to have any influence on our reasoning though it has to be assisted by some relation which can infuse our idea of its peril with some force or liveliness.

For instance, if the spider was a friend's pet, the spider would bear a relation to our friend, and therefore to ourselves, so the idea of its peril would strike us with more force, more liveliness, and affect our reasoning as we decided whether to kill it.

The reason other humans are harder to kill is because they bear us the relation of resemblance, which greatly elevates our conception of their situation, often to the point that our idea of their predicament becomes an impression of the predicament itself, or in other words to make us feel by sympathy what we imagine them to be feeling.

For a normally functioning human mind, there would have to be some great (at least perceived) differences to break this relation of resemblance before they could take another human's life.
 
Grimlock
 
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2009 12:07 am
@William,
William;88198 wrote:
I am sure there are those who will find a hard time understanding your sentiment especially after they have met a brown recluse. But alas, perhaps not, as a great many believe "well.....it's only a fetus".


This is sort of a bizarre point, William. I mean...I personally like spiders. Even when I semi-gleefully kill other insects which annoy me (wasps being a favorite), I go out of my way not to disturb spiders. But even I know that the brown recluse must be put to death if found in the home. It's simply not an organism that can be tolerated in close proximity to humans. At any rate, moral comparison between the brown recluse and a fetus would probably need a reanimated Aristophanes for adequate treatment.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2009 12:32 am
@alcaz0r,
Krumple;88324 wrote:
Well I have never been bitten by a spider and I just let them do their thing. Have you actually been bitten by a spider?


Seriously? You've never been bitten by a spider?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2009 04:58 am
@Shinhyung,
Shinhyung;88093 wrote:
I was thinking about this while killing a spider one day. I was quite scared to touch it or smash and burst it (urrgh) so I hoovered it! Well it must have been a shock and torture for it and I'm a bit sorry, but I find myself thinking, "well it's only a spider..."

I wouldn't have got over it so easily killing another person though.

Why is a person's life better than a spider's (I'm sure it is!!)? Because we are bigger? Live longer? Are cleverer? Or do we only think it because we are human ourselves?

(:popcorn:I just found out there were loads more smilies than I thought and I just love this one called popcorn.:offtopic:)

You shouldn't have killed the spider in the first place then you wouldn't need to ask this question.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2009 06:09 am
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;88416 wrote:
Seriously? You've never been bitten by a spider?


Um nope, is that so hard to believe? I let them be and they let me be, I suppose. Is that giving them too much credit?
 
Aedes
 
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2009 07:11 am
@William,
William;88198 wrote:
I am sure there are those who will find a hard time understanding your sentiment especially after they have met a brown recluse. But alas, perhaps not, as a great many believe "well.....it's only a fetus".
Loxoscelism (ulceration, skin necrosis, and certain systemic effects from brown recluse spider bites) is rare even in regions where the brown recluse spider lives. And it's absurd to impugn all spiders for this either, just as you don't need to go around culling people's poodles because of the occasional pit bull attack.

And by the way, DO NOT "goad" people with this other controversial topic that you've introduced into this. Keep it out of this and debate it elsewhere (if you think it will actually go anywhere useful).
 
 

 
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