The agnostic perspective.

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jgweed
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 09:01 am
@Deliteful Despot,
Even if the universe were to be a neat and tidy as we think it to be and think it has become, any argument for a "creator" that is not part of the physical world itself must account for how (or even better, WHY) it then created it. Most ideas of a Deity involve it being non-physical (at least in the sense that it is not held to the same laws as the universe), and the arguments about non-physical creation of the physical world seem even more difficult to assent to than the scientific argument that the universe was self-creating though chance.
If this different consideration results again in confusion,doubt, or uncertainty, a suspension of assent by an agnostic seems understandable.
 
manored
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 12:39 pm
@xris,
xris;101312 wrote:

The idea that life was inevitable before the BB was even a twinkle in the singularities eye, amazes me. Life is a product of natures great plan and to say its just another one of those silly coincidences in the scheme of things, is to deny the enormity and the majesty of our great universe. Its a mind set, one can say, o its the consequence of physics, or ,hell what another amazing beautiful fact of a creative force.
Well it can be both. Obviously the universe was created with the possibility of giving birth to live, since it did, but this doesnt means it was destined to do so. Maybe it was someone's experiment, or a game even?
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 01:43 pm
@manored,
manored;101547 wrote:
Well it can be both. Obviously the universe was created with the possibility of giving birth to live, since it did, but this doesnt means it was destined to do so. Maybe it was someone's experiment, or a game even?
If thats what you have concluded then your privy to more knowledge than I . Destiny is written into certain events. If it rains then we have water, its inevitable . Just as if you create formula for life, under certain circumstances, then its written we will have life. It is destined. Just as the evolution of life is inevitable, it strives to succeed, at all levels. The nature of nature is written no one can deny its tenacity,or the formula that decided its tenacity.
 
manored
 
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 09:05 am
@xris,
xris;101574 wrote:
If thats what you have concluded then your privy to more knowledge than I . Destiny is written into certain events. If it rains then we have water, its inevitable . Just as if you create formula for life, under certain circumstances, then its written we will have life. It is destined. Just as the evolution of life is inevitable, it strives to succeed, at all levels. The nature of nature is written no one can deny its tenacity,or the formula that decided its tenacity.
What I meant is that whatever force created our world may have very little influence on how the events are lead on beyond that. It might have just have made and unmade our would a thousand times until life happened.

That is not really relevant, though =)
 
JZaller
 
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 12:31 am
@xris,
xris;100904 wrote:
...How life has overcome so many difficulties to arrive at a being that is consumed with understanding of its self....


When you consider every planet without life the grandeur decreases. If you placed several thousand nutrient agar petri dishes in freezers and then a couple in a warm environment it wouldn't be fantastical at all for growth to occur.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 05:07 am
@JZaller,
JZaller;120620 wrote:
When you consider every planet without life the grandeur decreases. If you placed several thousand nutrient agar petri dishes in freezers and then a couple in a warm environment it wouldn't be fantastical at all for growth to occur.
Why should that be? If you can tell me how a formula for life can be so simple but impossible to replicate then I might have your view. Why the lack of life on other planets should take away the magnificence of life here on earth is beyond my reasoning. With cosmologist telling us that life could be found on millions of planets, is that insufficient for you?
 
3k1yp2
 
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 10:13 am
@xris,
xris;100901 wrote:
As an agnostic i can find footprints but never able to describe or imagine the ..... that made them. I believe there could be something but what it is or what it looks like i have no idea. Maybe one day if the footprints are so visible we would all accept the hidden truth. Should we know ? would it benefit us to know? It has never done us much good inventing one. I have to edit this, I should say i class myself as a pagan agnostic..if that makes sense.


the problem is the footprints are smudged, so you can't tell if they are indeed footprints, or if they are, what the foot that made them looked like =)
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 10:34 am
@3k1yp2,
3k1yp2;120662 wrote:
the problem is the footprints are smudged, so you can't tell if they are indeed footprints, or if they are, what the foot that made them looked like =)
It depends on what you consider foot prints would look like without preconceptions. If you have been on your desert Island for many years , any sign would be welcome.
 
MiseryMyMuse
 
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 06:25 pm
@xris,
I'm an agnostic with strong atheist leanings.
Anyway, this is my pathetically apathetic worldview.

If there's no god, I'll never have to deal with him.
If there is a god, I'll never get to see him.
If god is more than a creator, and I do get to see him, it's beyond my control at that point anyway.
If he's a giant chicken, what am I going to do? ***** about it?
And if I'm going to hell, so's the Pope.
Smile
 
manored
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 07:21 am
@MiseryMyMuse,
MiseryMyMuse;143779 wrote:

If there's no god, I'll never have to deal with him.
If there is a god, I'll never get to see him.
If god is more than a creator, and I do get to see him, it's beyond my control at that point anyway.
If he's a giant chicken, what am I going to do? ***** about it?
And if I'm going to hell, so's the Pope.
Smile
=)

If he is a giant chicken you pretend you never ate anything birdy in your life, thats what you do. Maybe he is not omniscient =)
 
Wisdom Seeker
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 08:27 am
@Deliteful Despot,
well of course no one can create without an existing one, their is high probability that a god exist somehow, but the question is: do he still exist at this moment?
 
manored
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 09:09 pm
@Wisdom Seeker,
Wisdom Seeker;152244 wrote:
well of course no one can create without an existing one, their is high probability that a god exist somehow, but the question is: do he still exist at this moment?
I disagree, a god isnt necessary for creation, all that is necessary is something. But that somehow doesnt applies to the universe itself, what is a paradox.
 
Wisdom Seeker
 
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 12:09 am
@Deliteful Despot,
only a supernatural intelligent being can make a very properly orderly complicated system that is the universe.

only supernatural intelligent being can create existence out of nothing.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 09:31 am
@Wisdom Seeker,
Wisdom Seeker;152655 wrote:
only a supernatural intelligent being can make a very properly orderly complicated system that is the universe.

only supernatural intelligent being can create existence out of nothing.
May be so but that still does not describe him.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 12:46 pm
@xris,
Why Him ? What organised Universe ? Are this just assumptions ? I think the Universe quite Chaotic; GOD could be IT, or a gender we have no Idea about.
 
manored
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 01:22 pm
@Wisdom Seeker,
Wisdom Seeker;152655 wrote:
only a supernatural intelligent being can make a very properly orderly complicated system that is the universe.

only supernatural intelligent being can create existence out of nothing.
A complex system can happen by change.

There could not be a supernatural intelligent being to create something then nothing existed, because that would be something. So I remain to my idea of that its an unsolvable paradox.

Pepijn Sweep;152882 wrote:
Why Him ? What organised Universe ? Are this just assumptions ? I think the Universe quite Chaotic; GOD could be IT, or a gender we have no Idea about.
God can be anything, but in the same way that he may be "it", he may also be "he", so there is no problem in using "he" either =)
 
Diogenes phil
 
Reply Sun 9 May, 2010 09:07 pm
@Deliteful Despot,
Being an agnostic, I do not know whether there is a God or not, I am apathetic towards the existence or non-existence of a God, and I will not attempt to justify the existence or non-existence of a God.
 
 

 
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