What an Idea can become

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tMeeker
 
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 10:22 am
Ideas are inevitably what shape this world which we live in. If an idea is a concept, a concept which has the ability to change the world, then why is it that the world is in the shape that it is in?

We each help to create the values and ideas which make this world the way it is, which add to why the world acts the way it does, converses with us the way it does, listens to us the way it does, and seems to search for what truth is in all the wrong areas.

Each of us know that with enough people, an idea can change the world. And with someone who is willing to die for that idea, and martyrdom does occur, that an idea becomes something more than a concept, it becomes a reality which delves into a systematic basis of what people will cling to until the day they die.

An idea for freedom, for truth, for purpose, or for perception is the very essence of what our inner selves seek to discover, many of us search our entire lives, turning the pages of time in order to discover what exactly made those who died for an idea, hold so dearly to that basis.

If an idea can change this world, then who are the people who are creating the ideas to shape this world to make it hold the values and morals which it holds today?
 
perplexity
 
Reply Wed 27 Sep, 2006 08:13 am
@tMeeker,
tMeeker wrote:
Ideas are inevitably what shape this world which we live in. If an idea is a concept, a concept which has the ability to change the world, then why is it that the world is in the shape that it is in?

Does that mean to suppose that the World does not actually represent our ideas, or ideals?

To the extent that the World is imperfect that is exactly because your idea would have it so:

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
(W Shakespeare: Hamlet,Act 2, Scene 2)

tMeeker wrote:

If an idea can change this world, then who are the people who are creating the ideas to shape this world to make it hold the values and morals which it holds today?

Do we not all participate, like or not, to create our own environment?

It rather strikes me as odd to suppose that some would or would not take part.

--- RH.
 
Ragnell
 
Reply Wed 27 Sep, 2006 08:50 pm
@tMeeker,
tMeeker wrote:

If an idea is a concept, a concept which has the ability to change the world, then why is it that the world is in the shape that it is in?


The poor shape, you mean? I would assume it is because a vast majority of ideas formed are 100% offal (Oscar Miejer Balogna, to use the vernacular). For example, most humans are driven almost soley on their mating instincts and their need for a release of endorphines and seratonin. These licentious people generally also concentrate on how to make themselves 'high', and will also strive to 'help' others 'fufill that need' as well.
Of course, much of the world also has excellent ideas, concepts, and the like. These people stop the world from collapsing and help it retain some dignity.
I believe it could also have to do with disagreement in thought processes. Two people (or countries, groups, etc.) could have astoundingly creative and intelligent ideas that entirely contradict the other. Some times these disagreements are... not handled properly.
 
Kalashnikov
 
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 12:39 am
@Ragnell,
Also, if someone is so inclined, they can work hard to make an idea a reality or to inspire others to do so. Why isnt this happening? I personally believe that only a few humans truely desire peace. I find myself searching for conflict all the time! I've had discussions with friends and acquantances that we agree the perfect heaven couldn't be perfect in the way we think of the word because there would be nothing to accomplish. So what i'm saying, is that humans may unconsciously create strife for the sole purpose of solving it.
 
Justin
 
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 09:53 pm
@tMeeker,
You mentioned conflicts... I'm finding that conflict isn't nearly as attractive or productive as cooperation.

Personal accomplishments through conflict could be seen as an addiction that temporarily satisfies the ego with an illusion. We do create strife, that's for certain. We are our own worst enemy when it comes down to it.

So to the original post, I wish there were better ideas and people were more willing to work together rather than try to, "get high" on their own. This forum was an idea for people to share ideas and inspire not only discussion of Philosophy but also implementation. It's through talks like this with people from all over the world that ideas are spread and realized.

By the way... Kalashnikov, welcome to the Philosophy Forum!
 
Kalashnikov
 
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 12:20 am
@Justin,
Bingo. And thank you! this looks pretty interesting and i look forward to becoming part of the community.
 
Kookaburra phil
 
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 10:19 am
@Kalashnikov,
I think the difficulty may lie partly in viewing ideas and reality as separate. Everything that exists boils down to the same thing: electrons, protons, quarks, it's all made of the same stuff.

So, ideas can shape the world, and the world can shape ideas. One isn't always dependent on the other. Ideas come into being when the world affects our brains, which create the ideas, which affect our bodies, which can affect the world if we use them in a particular way, ie to bring attention to our idea and make it happen on a large scale.

It has little to do with just imagining something and watching it unfold before your eyes.
 
PoPpAScience
 
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 06:07 pm
@Kookaburra phil,
[quote]So to the original post, I wish there were better ideas and people were more willing to work together rather than try to, "get high" on their own. This forum was an idea for people to share ideas and inspire not only discussion of Philosophy but also implementation. It's through talks like this with people from all over the world that ideas are spread and realized. ...Justin[/quote]
Jusin... I personally feel very strongly this way also. In fact I think this "get high" idea you quoted, is thee number one reason we are not moving ahead to the next level of intellectual thought. No matter where I look or listen all I see is people making statements, and not discussions about new ideas. This is the greatest time in human history for intellectual thought, of a new nature, with all the avenues of absorbing knowledge at our beckoning call. It is our time in human history to philosophise beyond those of the past. But we can not get there without discussing new ideas, whether believable or not. A true modern Philosopher will expand their minds beyond what is known to them, and reach for that which has not been known yet.
 
Grim Grom
 
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 06:07 pm
@tMeeker,
I was just browsing through and I saw this forum, and consequently this thread and decided to sign up and you know, share my opinions and the like.

I think your point is an interesting one, who's ideas exactly are influencing our world today? Well historically it has been those with power, or well control over others but it has allegedly shifted now to the people, with democracy and the like. But it would be naive to think that everyman's idea can have direct influence on his environment, like every other society, we are a product of our times. Its an amalgamation of ideas, and thinkers that create where we are at today. So its less controlled, but more evolved into what it is.
So from that, I would say society collectively, is what controls our morality and values.

Quote:
I think the difficulty may lie partly in viewing ideas and reality as separate. Everything that exists boils down to the same thing: electrons, protons, quarks, it's all made of the same stuff.

So, ideas can shape the world, and the world can shape ideas. One isn't always dependent on the other. Ideas come into being when the world affects our brains, which create the ideas, which affect our bodies, which can affect the world if we use them in a particular way, ie to bring attention to our idea and make it happen on a large scale.


Perhaps it is the other way around? Idealists would hold that everything that exists or can exist is essentially mental. And I would agree that ideas are primarily what create the world we have in the here and now.
Humans came into this world with nothing but nature, all social constructs and order, all taboos, all morality [at least if you take God out of the equation] is formed by ideas. The world didn't suddenly affect our brains to make us believe that stealing is wrong or adultery is bad, these are shaped by ideas.
 
PoPpAScience
 
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 12:29 pm
@Grim Grom,
Quote:
So from that, I would say society collectively, is what controls our morality and values.

I could not agree more Grim_Grom. That is why it is so important to contemplate and discuss new ideas for our society that will influence it to the "Good" side of nature. I personally believe that Democracy was a great step forward out of dictatorships. But a step up is what it is meant for. I feel very strongly that we today have every right to create a new step up for our society and leave Democracy for those societies recovering from Dictatorships. It aways amazes me that people think that Democracy is the end of social evolution. And even worse is the movement under way to step back from Democracy into Socialism, or better know as communism/democracy. Where are the forefathers of the next step in human social evolution?
 
Grim Grom
 
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 07:41 pm
@PoPpAScience,
PoPpAScience wrote:
I could not agree more Grim_Grom. That is why it is so important to contemplate and discuss new ideas for our society that will influence it to the "Good" side of nature. I personally believe that Democracy was a great step forward out of dictatorships. But a step up is what it is meant for. I feel very strongly that we today have every right to create a new step up for our society and leave Democracy for those societies recovering from Dictatorships. It aways amazes me that people think that Democracy is the end of social evolution. And even worse is the movement under way to step back from Democracy into Socialism, or better know as communism/democracy. Where are the forefathers of the next step in human social evolution?


Well where can we go from here? It is assumed that the system we have now is the best we can have. Well that is to say, if we were to perfect the democratic system so that theoretical ideas it was based on became reality. However, the democratic system is unworkable in todays' larger societies. It cannot be that everyman can have his ideas and opinions have effect on the world, which is surely democracy's ultimate aim.

I would propose that the next logical step for society, is total individual liberty, where every person can have their own ideas and values in which to craft an environment for themselves. However this would too be, if implemented, totally unworkable in the current western societal systems. So once again we perhaps need reform or indeed revolution, to reach the next stage of social evolution, but whether an evolution of this sort would be "correct" is another matter.
 
Candide phil
 
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 08:26 am
@tMeeker,
hmm, so you propose a libertarian government. While sounding very attractive, I can't say that it lends itself to societies such as the United States and China. The sad truth of the matter is that humans need government. It helps them follow a path upon which society forms its rules. However, that plan could work in sparsely populated areas, such as parts of africa where there are only tribes and clans.
 
vajrasattva
 
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 03:45 pm
@tMeeker,
The evolution of ideas depends greatly on personal interpretation of the idea itself, and as such, the idea it self can become great as well as perverted. i.e. what marks' idea of communism was and the communism we see today.
 
 

 
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