The Christian Resurrection

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Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 09:36 am
What is the main message of the resurrection for modern day liberal Christians?
Is it a blood sacrifice to wash away original sin? an ancient and primitive notion?
or
Is it the ultimate triumph of love over law,
life over death
hope over experience
and
good over evil?
Is Christianity in the modern era primarily about securing a place in the afterlife or about moral and ethical action and behavior in this life?
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 03:33 pm
@prothero,
I believe that Jesus Christ lived, taught and died, and was resurrected, and this was indeed a miracle. He was trying to convey something to mankind, to tell us to open our eyes. But I don't believe the inner meaning of the teaching has been understood by the institution of the Christian church, and the inner meaning is what is important. Truth is something to be sought within, as Jesus said. A lot of what goes on in the name of religion is the outcome of greed, hatred and delusion, and the Christian church is no exception.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 04:18 pm
@jeeprs,
You are eternally possible, if i am then so are you.
Blood sacrifice is self sacrifice, you cant bleed if you sacrifice, you cant sacrifice if you dont bleed.
Resurrection all laws are broken, anything is possible. Which means you are.
I would say it is experience over hope, possibly because of it, but experience it still is.
Is it evil to die and not able to rise?
Christianity i would say is leading the horse to the waters.
Life over death even if always because of it.
 
Amperage
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 04:24 pm
@jeeprs,
I wouldn't really consider myself a "liberal" Christian but I'll answer as best as I can.

For me personally, what takes Christianity beyond merely a set of ideals is that Christianity, at its most basic level, is about one man, Jesus of Nazareth. To my knowledge no other religion has elevated a man above or on par with its message. For if Jesus didn't live, die, and raise again then as Paul says, Christians are to be most pitied.

A notions "ancient"-ness and "primitive"-ness in no may diminishes the truth of the notion, so I sort of don't understand that.
The ancient notions of Greek masonry and architecture are unmatched even to this day. And metallurgical craftsmanship that was possessed in those time cannot be duplicated.

IMO I find it very easy to see how ancient and primitive people actually had CLOSER relationships with God than most do today. People of those times, firstly, didn't have the distractions that we find in today's time nor the "hustle and bustle". Secondly, they did not understand the world around them as well, which actually required them to trust God even more.

The ultimate picture is that of God's never ending love for us, a message of hope, and light in the midst of darkness, but the bible is very clear in the futility of these things if we do not serve a risen savior.

Just my 2 cents
 
onetwopi
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 07:32 pm
@Amperage,
prothero;148230 wrote:
What is the main message of the resurrection for modern day liberal Christians?


I think there are as many views on this as there are "modern day liberal Christians." And, for semantics, most of us today would probably view ourselves as "post-modern", meaning, later than the modern, fundamentalist age of the late 1970s-1990s. I see the message of the cross of Christ as the ultimate message of life over death - that life can be found in death, and that we have hope to die to a sinful nature in ourselves and be "resurrected" anew spiritually.

I find the idea repulsive that Jesus would die as a human sacrifice for our sins; that idea is as primitive as a tribe burning babies to the gods.

I don't think the message of good over evil is a message of the resurrection in particular, although maybe a subtext. Although the idea is popular that during Jesus' three days "in the grave" he conquered hell, there is no basis for this is literature or tradition. That Jesus will finally conquer over evil in the end days maybe another myth/story to consider.

Amperage;148340 wrote:

To my knowledge no other religion has elevated a man above or on par with its message.

What about Buddhism and Islam?

Amperage;148340 wrote:

IMO I find it very easy to see how ancient and primitive people actually had CLOSER relationships with God than most do today. People of those times, firstly, didn't have the distractions that we find in today's time nor the "hustle and bustle". Secondly, they did not understand the world around them as well, which actually required them to trust God even more.

I think it is more likely that people needed God to explain things that science could not explain. How did the sun come up and go down every day in the same interval? OH, God makes it rise and set. It was heresy when it is first discovered that the earth is turning and the sun is (relatively, for this argument) stationary. Where did humans come from? God created them from the dust of the earth. Then we have Darwin that comes along and leads us to a scientific explanation for the origin of humankind, and voila, another reason to use God to understand the natural disappears.
I think this is why so many Christians fight like the third monkey on the deck of Noah's ark to defend creationism -- they fear that if they let it go, then the need for God will disappear. This is simply not the case, but it is this fear that drives fundamentalists to these types of anachronistic beliefs. Christians--we have to live and understand God and our model and savior Christ in the light of the 21st century!

Cheers!
 
mark gamson
 
Reply Fri 14 May, 2010 08:22 am
@prothero,
prothero;148230 wrote:
What is the main message of the resurrection for modern day liberal Christians?
Is it a blood sacrifice to wash away original sin? an ancient and primitive notion?
or
Is it the ultimate triumph of love over law,
life over death
hope over experience
and
good over evil?
Is Christianity in the modern era primarily about securing a place in the afterlife or about moral and ethical action and behavior in this life?


Good question, But we need to know that it was the Christ's sacrifice on the cross that takes sin, He was raised for our justification,(Romans 4:25) and if one becomes a christian just to secure a place then this is not christian at all , one must become a christian because of who God is, worthy of all worship even when the end of the day comes it meant Hell, but God is gracious and yes in His love He gives life and that eternal With Him.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 14 May, 2010 11:50 am
@mark gamson,
From my perspective you have to first consider the validity of the whole story. Is it essential to take it as true? New life, renewed , born again.

Would a benevolent god deem it essential that his son should experience the most horrendous pain to make a vague point of removing our sins. These sins are they what had been done or what would be done?.Can you simple wash away the horrors of the gas chambers without retribution, without a certain accounting system?
 
prothero
 
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 11:36 am
@xris,
[QUOTE=xris;164307] From my perspective you have to first consider the validity of the whole story. Is it essential to take it as true? New life, renewed , born again. [/QUOTE]
Creation/Fall/Redemption
Birth/Death/Resurrection
Father/Son/Holy Ghost
Perhaps just an allegory for the broader themes of life and nature; Cosmology and Evolution both tell a story of creation, destruction and renewal (creative advance through destruction) just a thought. The sun sets, the sun rises, summer comes followed by winter, etc.


[QUOTE=xris;164307] Would a benevolent god deem it essential that his son should experience the most horrendous pain to make a vague point of removing our sins. These sins are they what had been done or what would be done?.Can you simple wash away the horrors of the gas chambers without retribution, without a certain accounting system? [/QUOTE] The idea that the gods are appeased by sacrifice, especially blood sacrifice or the sacrifice of the innocent (children, virgins, etc), is not a pretty feature of Christian theology. Part of religious motivation is the achievement of final justice since there is clearly not justice as humans perceive it in this life. It is precisely to balance the accounting system that the notion of an afterlife, final judgment and heaven and hell were invented. For me both notions are misunderstandings and misrepresentations of divine nature and divine action.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 05:20 am
@prothero,
Yes the ancient pagan belief in continue renewal by the power of the sun and nature can be seen in this story.
 
Gnostic
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 09:38 pm
@prothero,
prothero;148230 wrote:
What is the main message of the resurrection for modern day liberal Christians?
Is it a blood sacrifice to wash away original sin? an ancient and primitive notion?
or
Is it the ultimate triumph of love over law,
life over death
hope over experience
and
good over evil?
Is Christianity in the modern era primarily about securing a place in the afterlife or about moral and ethical action and behavior in this life?


Christianity needs to evolve. They need to take the focus off the death of Jesus of Nazareth and put it in the resurrection. Which is more important: life or death?

Furthermore they need to focus more on the actual teachings of Jesus. The theology of original sin for instance was never actually preached by Jesus. NEVER

Therefore Christians also need to focus more on Jesus' actual teachings rather than Saint Paul's for example.

When one does this one will see a more practical and beautiful message, one more closely related to what you have in mind.
 
 

 
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