Is God an Athiest?

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Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 07:17 pm
Does he believe in a God?

Does believing in himself count?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 08:30 pm
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;148390 wrote:
Does he believe in a God?

Does believing in himself count?


He probably knows about Descartes's Cogito, and says to Himself, I think, therefore, I exist.

If your question is whether God is an atheist, then it follows that if God does believe He exists since to say that God both believes that he exists and does not believe he exists would be a contradiction.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 02:58 am
@ikurwa89,
I think this anthropomorphic: attributing or projecting human characteristics to non-human beings.

If someone asks me if I believe in God, I will say, it depends on what they mean by that. People have many different kinds of pictures or images of what God might be. Most people seem to believe in a 'sky father'. Interestingly, this is the original meaning of the word 'Jupitar'. 'Ju' was derived from Dyaus, sky, and Pitar is the same word as 'father'. 'Father in Heaven' is of course a standard expression in the NT. But what does it really mean?

All throughout history people have created images and allegories for God. God is like this, like that. Like a Father, and so on. But they are all human inventions.

Whether you believe God is real or not, it should be understood that He is something completely and utterly beyond human comprehension, so what God thinks, or if he thinks, you will never know.

This probably won't help very much but it is all I've got.:bigsmile:
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 04:11 am
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;148390 wrote:
Does he believe in a God?

Does believing in himself count?
The bible aknowledge other gods, but just that there's only 1 true god.
 
lazymon
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 04:34 pm
@ikurwa89,
But what is a God? Is it merely a tool for man to give us purpose, direction, and meaning to life?

Does God have a purpose? He certainly is secret about it. Maybe God struggles with His own purpose? Are we as humans just tools to help Him work out His own purpose? Or maybe we are partners with Him as like-gods our self. Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; Genesis 3:22

Being like-god and created in His own image, is it possible to become gods or at least become a part of Him?

I recently watched a movie on Netflix entitled "The Atheism Tapes." The part I found most interesting is that science is slowly discovering that the soul could possibly be a bunch of "ratchets" as they called them. These mechanical/biological "ratchets" do the job of the soul. Kind of like a computer program in our mind that is physical, not metaphysical as we once thought. Just as ancient Egyptians once thought we could measure good and evil by weighing a person's heart with feathers.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 09:53 pm
@lazymon,
lazymon;159687 wrote:
But what is a God? Is it merely a tool for man to give us purpose, direction, and meaning to life?

Does God have a purpose? He certainly is secret about it. Maybe God struggles with His own purpose? Are we as humans just tools to help Him work out His own purpose? Or maybe we are partners with Him as like-gods our self. Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; Genesis 3:22

Being like-god and created in His own image, is it possible to become gods or at least become a part of Him?

I recently watched a movie on Netflix entitled "The Atheism Tapes." The part I found most interesting is that science is slowly discovering that the soul could possibly be a bunch of "ratchets" as they called them. These mechanical/biological "ratchets" do the job of the soul. Kind of like a computer program in our mind that is physical, not metaphysical as we once thought. Just as ancient Egyptians once thought we could measure good and evil by weighing a person's heart with feathers.
`Per se I would fully agree with you, but this is a chirstian forum, which where the idea should be playing along with the belivers, not defuse and debunk the belive.
 
lazymon
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 11:00 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;159783 wrote:
`Per se I would fully agree with you, but this is a chirstian forum, which where the idea should be playing along with the belivers, not defuse and debunk the belive.


Then no God is not an atheist since He is a jealous God and commands to only believe in Him alone as a God. Still I don't think He ever commanded us not to think about Him, there are plenty of things in the scriptures that alludes to His character.
 
prothero
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 11:19 pm
@lazymon,
jeeprs;159496 wrote:
Whether you believe God is real or not, it should be understood that He is something completely and utterly beyond human comprehension, so what God thinks, or if he thinks, you will never know.
Perhaps and certainly in some respects the divine transcends or can be seen only as the biblical phrase goes "through a glass darkly". I am not sure the situation is entirely hopeless however for our reason and experience have given us incredible insights into the workings of nature and thus into some aspect of the divine creation.
[QUOTE=lazymon;159687] But what is a God? Is it merely a tool for man to give us purpose, direction, and meaning to life? [/QUOTE] Perhaps, most concepts of god are very anthropomorphic and more likely represent human hopes rather than divine attributes.
[QUOTE=lazymon;159687] Does God have a purpose? He certainly is secret about it. Maybe God struggles with His own purpose? Are we as humans just tools to help Him work out His own purpose? Or maybe we are partners with Him as like-gods our self. [/QUOTE]
lazymon;159687 wrote:
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; Genesis 3:22
One would think that the discovery of deep time (the long time course of cosmological (universe) and geological (earth) history, along with the slow biological evolution of man and the species would result in an altered conception of divine action and divine nature. The violent nature of the universe and the episodes of mass extinctions on our planet are other factors to be accounted for. My personal view is that the universe is inherently ordered and rational and can be represented by mathematical expression which implies some form of reasoned intelligence behind the universe. The traditional notion that man is the crown of creation, that the universe is a stage for some human drama about sin and salvation, and that the earth is the center of the universe is not rational in the modern age. There are of course other notions of divine purpose the most attractive of which I think is the notion that the purpose is that of creativity itself, of the actualization of possibility, of value, and of experience.

[QUOTE=lazymon;159687] Being like-god and created in His own image, is it possible to become gods or at least become a part of Him? . [/QUOTE] Humans do seem unique in their reasoning and comptemplative powers. These attributes are not trivial for our understanding of nature and how nature works is orders of magnitude greater than our fellow creatures. So in some sense we may be more "made in the image". The universe becoming aware of itself, the emmantion of indwelling spirit or a manifestation of cosmic intelligence.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 11:44 pm
@prothero,
prothero;159797 wrote:
Perhaps and certainly in some respects the divine transcends or can be seen only as the biblical phrase goes "through a glass darkly". I am not sure the situation is entirely hopeless however for our reason and experience have given us incredible insights into the workings of nature and thus into some aspect of the divine creation.


But it is not a matter of despair or hopelessness. It is not like throwing your hands up the air 'we can't know anything'. It is more like coming to understand the divine nature 'in the heart', rather than in trying to figure it out through thinking.

Consider the classic medieval Christian work, The Cloud of Unknowing:
Quote:
Prayer and meditation on the divine...have been used for millennia to grow in the knowledge of God. Cloud of Unknowing documents techniques used by the medieval monastic community to build and maintain that contemplative knowledge of God. Written as a primer for the young monastic, the work is instructional, but does not have an austere didactic tone. Rather, the work embraces the reader with a maternal call to grow closer to God through meditation and prayer.
So this is not saying 'well we can't know anythng'. It is actually trusting in meditation or contemplation, rather than thinking or knowing. Of course, thought and knowledge will always continue as basic activities of our life. It does not cancel that out.

---------- Post added 05-04-2010 at 04:15 PM ----------

lazymon;159687 wrote:
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; Genesis 3:22

Being like-god and created in His own image, is it possible to become gods or at least become a part of Him?


My interpretation - this refers to the origin of self-consciousness, the beginning of the time when humans began to be capable of knowing that they exist. Animals don't know anything of the sort. They exist in a state of primal immediacy and act purely out of instinct. One meaning of 'the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil' is that (hu)man is then 'an independent witness', capable of saying 'this is good', 'this is bad'. So in this respect, (hu)man has become 'like God'. But at the same time, this self-awareness is a curse as well as a blessing, because by it we are 'doomed to labour' and live by the sweat of our brow, and are also aware of our own mortality (hence, subject to death.) That is why in the NT, Christ says 'Come unto me, all ye who labour, and I will give you rest'. This is because Christ reconciles the individual with God - through 'his love' your sense of seperateness is overcome. And I think that is an orthodox interpretation.
 
Bill Maxwell
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 02:33 am
@jeeprs,
Assuming God exists, he has to be aware of his own existence as an all-knowing being. It's a necessary fact that he knows his own existence if he knows everything.

Is God an Atheist... Well, I'm sure knowing that he was God would surely make him believe in God.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:06 am
@ikurwa89,
Probably a better answer than mine. A lot more straightforward, certainly.
 
Bill Maxwell
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:10 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;159869 wrote:
Probably a better answer than mine. A lot more straightforward, certainly.


If that was directed at my contribution, then I've found that simply clarifying the definitions of what I'm talking about holds the answers.

That's not say answers like your own aren't good. Smile
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 04:42 am
@ikurwa89,
Thanks Bill - and nice to meet you! As I say, I just went off on a complete tangent with it. But never mind, it is all grist to the mill, as the saying goes.
 
Bill Maxwell
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 04:50 am
@ikurwa89,
Indeed. Nice to meet you too.

To stay on topic, do you have any particular views on God? Have you a religion?
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 04:57 am
@ikurwa89,
aha. Big question. I am certainly one of the spirituals on the forum, put it that way. But my academic background is in Comparative Religion rather than devotional theology. I am a 'sixties person' with an interest in Eastern spirituality and meditation. As I have grown older I have become much more sympathetic to the religion of my birth, which was Anglican, but I am not very likely to return to it. I try and encourage people here to really think through their questions about the topic. It is much deeper than many realise. They have no hesitation on pronouncing on it, as if if is something easy to understand. It is not.
 
Bill Maxwell
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:06 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;159897 wrote:
aha. Big question. I am certainly one of the spirituals on the forum, put it that way. But my academic background is in Comparative Religion rather than devotional theology. I am a 'sixties person' with an interest in Eastern spirituality and meditation. As I have grown older I have become much more sympathetic to the religion of my birth, which was Anglican, but I am not very likely to return to it. I try and encourage people here to really think through their questions about the topic. It is much deeper than many realise. They have no hesitation on pronouncing on it, as if if is something easy to understand. It is not.


I have an interest in other cultures and with that comes interest in spirituality and religion. (Although I highly doubt my knowledge on this subject will rival yours) However, that's not to say I believe in any of it.

As a child I was surrounded by Christianity and the idea of an all-powerful, all knowing benevolent being. When I first came by Philosophy, I first considered such a being and concluded there was no strong justification for believing one exists.
As for any other spirituality or religion, the same lack of evidence or convincing arguments has lead me to the same conclusion. However, you never know; I may have missed something or not heard any good arguments.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:24 am
@ikurwa89,
Well welcome to the Forum, and I hope you will find many things to ponder!
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:32 am
@ikurwa89,
Could God be an agnostic? Descartes never had any doubt about his own existence, but look, God is probably smarter than Descartes. At least He has been around longer, and has had a hell of a lot more experience than Descartes.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:48 am
@ikurwa89,
thanks Ken. Priceless.:bigsmile:

---------- Post added 05-04-2010 at 09:56 PM ----------

actually the virtues of agnosticism are hard to exagerrate. Provided it is not an apathetic kind of 'don't know and don't care' agnosticism, but a real honest admission of not knowing, agnosticism is a very intelligent attitude.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 07:17 am
@ikurwa89,
I suppose this could be: Perhaps he's of low self-esteem and doesn't really believe in his own abilities and worth. How many of us, at times, just don't believe in ourselves.
 
 

 
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