Perfect God? Not so perfect!

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

trismegisto
 
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 02:36 pm
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;147014 wrote:
So if he created us because of the act of love, does he(not male) want us to love him back or what?

Also, why love? isn't that a human experience?

lol where is this discussion going?


Do you want your spleen to love you back? Its fairly the same principle.
For the Infinite Supreme (what most religions loosely refer to as god) to love us is the same as loving oneself.

You love yourself, but when was the last time you wondered whether or not your self loved you back?

Trying to apply our individual concepts to the Infinite Supreme (by any name) is futile.
 
prothero
 
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 04:42 pm
@GoshisDead,
Certainly the God portrayed in the Bible is not perfect. In fact perfection is not a trait claimed in the Bible. All the Bible says is. It is good. Good not perfect.
Plato said basically That which is good we attribute to God, that which is not good we attribute to other causes.

Notions of divine perfection, omnipotence, and omniscience are all from Greek philosophy not from the Bible or Semitic religion and they are all based on a false notion of the heavens as perfect spheres and circular orbits, changeless and eternal. They are theological errors, mistakes. God is not changeless eternal perfection transcendent from the world.
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 08:06 pm
@prothero,
prothero;147213 wrote:
Certainly the God portrayed in the Bible is not perfect. In fact perfection is not a trait claimed in the Bible. All the Bible says is. It is good. Good not perfect.
Plato said basically That which is good we attribute to God, that which is not good we attribute to other causes.

Notions of divine perfection, omnipotence, and omniscience are all from Greek philosophy not from the Bible or Semitic religion and they are all based on a false notion of the heavens as perfect spheres and circular orbits, changeless and eternal. They are theological errors, mistakes. God is not changeless eternal perfection transcendent from the world.


I would argue that most of the Greek notions of divinity were inspired by Egypt. For the most part all significant religious ideologies of classical Greece were assimilated from Egypt. Egypt was old and old was authority in classical Greece.

The god portrayed in the bible is a European variant of a roman cult co-opted from the Jews who adopted it from Egypt which was influenced by Babylon.

It is merely words to convey ideas, nothing more.
 
spiltteeth
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 05:54 pm
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;145495 wrote:
I've been thinking about this for the past couple of months and I've discussed this with my not so bright religious friends about the perfectness of God.

So I asked, if God is perfect in every possible way..then what reason did he(not male) have in creating the universe?

If he is perfect then he has no reason to "want" or "need" unless he is not perfect and as a result we must appeal to the "lesser God" definition.

My friends usually reply with, he created the universe and us in order to gain worship..but I find that this particular God had something missing in the first place, for creating us in order to attain worship.

I find that any reason I place on him, make him lesser before. So what are your thoughts?

Is he perfect? What reason did he have in creating the universe?

Perfection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks Very Happy


the purpose of life in general is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. You are a personal being , made in God's image, and it is in relation to the personal God that the fulfillment of human existence is to be found. God is infinite goodness and love, and you will find your deepest longings met in Him.
God does not need us for His own fulfillment; as the supreme good He finds that in Himself. We are created not for God's benefit but for ours, that we might experience the joy of personal relationship with Him. In freely creating us for our good, God is glorified as self-giving love.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 06:08 pm
@spiltteeth,
spiltteeth;148362 wrote:
the purpose of life in general is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. You are a personal being , made in God's image, and it is in relation to the personal God that the fulfillment of human existence is to be found. God is infinite goodness and love, and you will find your deepest longings met in Him.
God does not need us for His own fulfillment; as the supreme good He finds that in Himself. We are created not for God's benefit but for ours, that we might experience the joy of personal relationship with Him. In freely creating us for our good, God is glorified as self-giving love.


This is the christian point of view. There are many variations and different religions. Some people are not religieus at all. Self I believe in Hermes. I do not use tittle. Or abuse it like trismegisto.

Pepijn Sweep
Magister I/O
 
spiltteeth
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 12:30 am
@ikurwa89,
I am a Christian, but I think this also accords with the Muslim and Jewish conception as well.
It seemed that the person was referring to a deity within one of these traditions.

I used to be deeply into Hermes, especially the works of Joscelyn Godwin. Really I was interested in philosophical alchemy.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 05:17 am
@spiltteeth,
spiltteeth;148446 wrote:
I am a Christian, but I think this also accords with the Muslim and Jewish conception as well.
It seemed that the person was referring to a deity within one of these traditions.

I used to be deeply into Hermes, especially the works of Joscelyn Godwin. Really I was interested in philosophical alchemy.


I would like to read:

Hermes Trismegistus by R. Van den Broek
Pimander's privy collection
Biblioteca Medicea

Publ. Bloemgracht 31 - 35
1016 KC in Amsterdam

Printed by Mercurius, Kunstdrukkerij

It's a small World After-All

My late Father old Father
was a Porter

 
trismegisto
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 01:40 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;148367 wrote:
This is the christian point of view. There are many variations and different religions. Some people are not religieus at all. Self I believe in Hermes. I do not use tittle. Or abuse it like trismegisto.

Pepijn Sweep
Magister I/O


Firstly, this is the tradition that the Christians adopted. It is by no means THEIR point of view. The christians are a relatively late sect and there are very few ideas within christianity that are original.


Secondly, You have issues sir, that you need to deal with. Please stay on topic. I really don't understand why you are so petty. You go ahead and believe in anything you want, just leave me out of it.

However, it you truly believe in the writings of Hermes then why do you not supply this thread with information concerning the perfection of Poimadres, or the decent of man from good to evil?

You say you believe but you make no reference to any of the knowledge. Have you read Poimadres, Asclepius, Kore Kosmou, Kybalion, The Stobaeus fragments, the Definitions of Asclpeius, the Shepard of Hermas, The Didache? Have you gleaned the ancient truths?

Or do you just like the corrupted philosophy of petty magicians and alchemists, the useless fads of the OTO and the Golden Dawn, the ignornant ravings of the Rosicrucians and Cayce and all the fools that followed trying to twist the knowledge to fit their personal gain.

It is no longer enough to just say the words. Words have no value. The time of secrecy and mystery is over. Knowledge is for everyone.
 
chikong
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 01:57 pm
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;145495 wrote:
I've been thinking about this for the past couple of months and I've discussed this with my not so bright religious friends about the perfectness of God.

So I asked, if God is perfect in every possible way..then what reason did he(not male) have in creating the universe?

If he is perfect then he has no reason to "want" or "need" unless he is not perfect and as a result we must appeal to the "lesser God" definition.

My friends usually reply with, he created the universe and us in order to gain worship..but I find that this particular God had something missing in the first place, for creating us in order to attain worship.

I find that any reason I place on him, make him lesser before. So what are your thoughts?

Is he perfect? What reason did he have in creating the universe?

Perfection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks Very Happy




Truly your religious friends are not that bright...anyway God didn't made us for us to worship him because in the first place he doesn't need that(to be worship) and he can live independently with out us...going back to your question is he perfect? of course he is...if not then he is not a God!!! questioning his perfectness is not right when we talk about God...God is ultimate, infinite, all powerful and most perfect being...so again questioning his perfectness is contradictory to his characteristics...we just have to understand that we are just finite beings and can't level our way of thinking to God's thinking...logically speaking if we knew the reason why he made the universe then we are like playing Gods...its a mystery only him knows because he is the creator...thnks and God BLess!!!:bigsmile:
 
Krumple
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 05:04 pm
@chikong,
chikong;148608 wrote:
Truly your religious friends are not that bright...anyway God didn't made us for us to worship him because in the first place he doesn't need that(to be worship) and he can live independently with out us...going back to your question is he perfect? of course he is...if not then he is not a God!!! questioning his perfectness is not right when we talk about God...God is ultimate, infinite, all powerful and most perfect being...so again questioning his perfectness is contradictory to his characteristics...we just have to understand that we are just finite beings and can't level our way of thinking to God's thinking...logically speaking if we knew the reason why he made the universe then we are like playing Gods...its a mystery only him knows because he is the creator...thnks and God BLess!!!:bigsmile:


Cow manure never smelt as fresh as it does today.
 
mark noble
 
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 09:27 am
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;145495 wrote:
I've been thinking about this for the past couple of months and I've discussed this with my not so bright religious friends about the perfectness of God.

So I asked, if God is perfect in every possible way..then what reason did he(not male) have in creating the universe?

If he is perfect then he has no reason to "want" or "need" unless he is not perfect and as a result we must appeal to the "lesser God" definition.

My friends usually reply with, he created the universe and us in order to gain worship..but I find that this particular God had something missing in the first place, for creating us in order to attain worship.

I find that any reason I place on him, make him lesser before. So what are your thoughts?

Is he perfect? What reason did he have in creating the universe?

Perfection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks Very Happy


Hello all,

Can you, or any one of the following respondents please indulge me with your definition of 'perfect'. I assure you that it will be different on all accounts.

Perfection is unique - No two things in any realm of space and time can share the same location and are, therefore unique, by alternate location, if nothing else. Thus- Every thing is unique - Thus- every thing is perfect.
You, Your thoughts, your ideas, me, protons, nebulas, grains of sand and garibaldi biscuits. All unique - All perfect... End of.

Thank you

Mark
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 11:43 am
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;145495 wrote:
I've been thinking about this for the past couple of months and I've discussed this with my not so bright religious friends about the perfectness of God.

So I asked, if God is perfect in every possible way..then what reason did he(not male) have in creating the universe?

If he is perfect then he has no reason to "want" or "need" unless he is not perfect and as a result we must appeal to the "lesser God" definition.

My friends usually reply with, he created the universe and us in order to gain worship..but I find that this particular God had something missing in the first place, for creating us in order to attain worship.

I find that any reason I place on him, make him lesser before. So what are your thoughts?

Is he perfect? What reason did he have in creating the universe?

Perfection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks Very Happy
This somehow reminds me of UFO-sighter-rethoric, mass of unrelating words that are shoehoren-fitted-together.
 
spiltteeth
 
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 02:34 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble;158964 wrote:
Hello all,

Can you, or any one of the following respondents please indulge me with your definition of 'perfect'. I assure you that it will be different on all accounts.

Perfection is unique - No two things in any realm of space and time can share the same location and are, therefore unique, by alternate location, if nothing else. Thus- Every thing is unique - Thus- every thing is perfect.
You, Your thoughts, your ideas, me, protons, nebulas, grains of sand and garibaldi biscuits. All unique - All perfect... End of.

Thank you

Mark


Christian philosophy, following Anslem for the past thousand yrs, usually defines God as "perfect" in the sense that He is maximally great (or has maximal excellence), where maximal greatness entails being omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect in every possible world.

The last 100 yrs or so you may hear it said that God has the maximal number of compatible great making properties.'

However, it is true that philosophers working within the Judaeo-Christian tradition enjoy considerable latitude in formulating a philosophically coherent and biblically faithful doctrine of God.
 
 

 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.02 seconds on 03/23/2019 at 05:43:28