WHY THE FEAR ?

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wayne
 
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 09:18 pm
The christian church appears to have gotten way off track, very early on.
In the Acts they begin telling stories of god killing people over money issues, nothing could be further from the teachings of Jesus.
This use of fear continues in the church to this day, "you'll burn in hell".
how can anyone develop an honest faith in god when they are full of fear?
The bible is full of wisdom and insight,so I don't suggest throwing the baby out with the bath water, but I do think that men put as much into it as god did, so maybe we should begin with disernment like it says.
solomon said to let no man tell you that he knows for he cannot.
why should i be afraid of god? he doesn't want my money either.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 10:53 pm
@wayne,
If you are prepared to study this question, there are answers to it. The early history of Christianity (we now know) was a riot of competing sects and versions of scripture. For centuries afterwards, nobody was allowed to question anything about 'the official story'. But things have changed considerably in the last century or two.

Some books and writers to consider: When Jesus became God by Richard Rubinstein; Bart Ehrman, who is a dissident biblical scholar; Elaine Pagels, who has written considerably on the Gnostic Gospels. Other interesting writes are Marcus Borg, Richard Smoley, and Jacob Needleman. Have a look at their books on Amazon.
 
onetwopi
 
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2010 01:47 am
@jeeprs,
I think you should check out Bart Ehrman's Jesus Interrupted. Although Ehrman is not a Christian, he was one. As a "thinking Christian", I find someone of his scholarly aptitude and devotion to the truth refreshing, even if we believe differently when it comes to Christ.
 
salima
 
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2010 09:10 am
@wayne,
in arabic the word is taqwa, which is unfortunately translated into english as 'fear' but doesnt really mean fear, according to commentators. i also always had a problem with the idea that i should be afraid of a god for any reason.

so taqwa is explained as a lot of things, some of which are a feeling of awe, and similar to a sort of super consideration of the feelings one might have for one's lover when first falling in love, a desire to please, the hope of approval as a child might have of its parents, etc...the list is very long. and it is said that one should not have this sort of reverence (that's another aspect of it) for any human being, it would be inspired by a being of the greatest magnitude. it is more often suggested that we fear the wrath, not the punishment-obviously someone's wrath cant hurt you...but it is that which you want to avoid. the punishment would be only secondary.
 
wayne
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 01:48 am
@salima,
salima;157096 wrote:
in arabic the word is taqwa, which is unfortunately translated into english as 'fear' but doesnt really mean fear, according to commentators. i also always had a problem with the idea that i should be afraid of a god for any reason.

so taqwa is explained as a lot of things, some of which are a feeling of awe, and similar to a sort of super consideration of the feelings one might have for one's lover when first falling in love, a desire to please, the hope of approval as a child might have of its parents, etc...the list is very long. and it is said that one should not have this sort of reverence (that's another aspect of it) for any human being, it would be inspired by a being of the greatest magnitude. it is more often suggested that we fear the wrath, not the punishment-obviously someone's wrath cant hurt you...but it is that which you want to avoid. the punishment would be only secondary.


I think this is a very good interpretation of how we should feel toward God. I really can't believe that God punishes us, more like the world does the punishing when we don't listen to our father's wisdom.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 02:14 am
@wayne,
I agree with you, but yours is a dissident view. Check out Edwards Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. This would be more characteristic of the mainstream view.
 
wayne
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 02:33 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;157456 wrote:
I agree with you, but yours is a dissident view. Check out Edwards Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. This would be more characteristic of the mainstream view.


Yes indeed. I have a brother with whom I can no longer speak, due to my dissident view. Thank God it's the 21st century, the Quakers would have whipped me behind an ox cart. Smile

I always consider God to be beyond my human ability, if I can concieve of complete love and forgiveness, while being humanly incapable, how much more can God do.
Why would God ever have a reason to punish us?
The answer, I am sure, is that he doesn't do that sort of thing.

What amazes me is that this is not so hard to see, I am not brilliant or anything, just a man. Yet so many intelligent people don't want to see this. My opinion is they are afraid.

I coined a phrase sometime ago that kind of sums that up. I've a couple of friends who laugh with me at this a lot.
"Don't let God catch ya thinkin that"
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 02:36 am
@wayne,
Yes I saw a great bumper sticker once that said 'Look busy, Jesus is coming'.

I thought the Quakers were non-conformists and pacifists? I thought it was the Calvinists and Baptists and all the rest that preached hellfire.
 
wayne
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 02:48 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;157459 wrote:
Yes I saw a great bumper sticker once that said 'Look busy, Jesus is coming'.

I thought the Quakers were non-conformists and pacifists? I thought it was the Calvinists and Baptists and all the rest that preached hellfire.


Your right, I meant Calvinist not Quakers. Confused my c's and q's

I've seen that sticker too. I wonder how many people read that without getting the irony behind it.
 
lazymon
 
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2010 03:56 pm
@wayne,
I have a question! The bible says that if you deny the Holy Spirit that you are being blasphemous. Blasphemy from what I know is an unforgivable sin. So just in case, what is the Holy Spirit and if you blaspheme God does that mean a ticket to hell?
 
wayne
 
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2010 08:12 pm
@lazymon,
lazymon;158536 wrote:
I have a question! The bible says that if you deny the Holy Spirit that you are being blasphemous. Blasphemy from what I know is an unforgivable sin. So just in case, what is the Holy Spirit and if you blaspheme God does that mean a ticket to hell?


That depends, I suppose, on the belief you choose to follow.

I am going to take my chances that God is the beat kind of friend you can have, that all that fear stuff was dreamt up by men, to serve their own end.
 
 

 
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