To be a Christian must one then have to believe in evil?

Is evil necessary to believe in if you believe in Christ?

Is Christianity trying to proove good or evil?

(To believe you are evil or capable mean you are a Christian?)

(Is Christian evil different from other evils or other religions evils?)

If there is no evil, then it would be difficult to understand the concept of a "savior". From what would a savior be saving one if there were no evil?

I'm an atheist but I suppose that the theist could defend the concept that there is no evil, merely a lack of good?

I have seen this argument used before, and my response is that a lack of something is neutral, not opposed. So for a god to punish for a neutral act would seem rather silly to me. Although for a god to punish anything he created would also seem rather silly, I see no "fatherly tough love" in one time 75 year shots at heaven or hell.

The problem of evil has been around for ages because it is a genuine problem. There is no correct answer that does not diminish the idea of god in some manner. You either make god less than omnipotent, less than omnipresent, less than omnibenevolent, etc... or you try to conclude that evil was necessary, and the answer to this for me is, "why create us at all then?".

I agree. I think the problem ( not just of evil ), is that the attributes that theists give to the Christian God are fundamentally opposed.
An omnibenevolent God wouldn't punish, nor create a world where evil could happen.
And if the view that we have a "destiny" is true, and that "God works in mysterious ways" is also true, it would seem that the Christian God isn't all-loving if he punishes his creation for something they cannot control?

Do modern christians believe in an actual hell or is a just a metaphorical concept to explain absolute Godlessness?

I am not a classical Christian (whatecver that means) and i believe in hell, not sure hell is created for or by Christians though.
Hell meets the needs of those who go there.

Exactly, the idea of free will breaks down in a theist's argument when you ask them "who decided to create us to endure this gauntlet?". If god is all-knowing (or even if he just had common sense), he would know that he was sending the majority of the planet to hell by creating us, so the responsibility falls back on god. Even if hell was just separation from god, it is still a matter of where free will breaks down, obviously if there is a god almost everyone would want to know!

I'm on my way there, ill send you a post card.

---------- Post added 02-24-2010 at 04:16 PM ----------



I have tried to point this out before, with pretty much to no avail. They look at it and shrug, like I was talking about some science fiction story.

If god exists, god knows I was made for going directly to hell. I picture myself coming off the assembling line and falling directly into the hell pit. Like no packaging, no shipping, no instructions, just a straight shot off the conveyor belt and into the oven. He knew even before the last bolt was put into place that I was destined for the recycling bin. I mean, what's the point then putting in the last bolt if it's just going into the heap anyways?

At least you dont believe we are all already there.

We are built to go up, you may not have a choice in that either, just as you have no choice to be good person even though you may have bad habits makes you no less a good person.
The very act of love is God proven.
God sees you Krumple, God is looking right at you even if you cant see yourself.
God is pleased:)

At least you dont believe we are all already there.

We are built to go up, you may not have a choice in that either, just as you have no choice to be good person even though you may have bad habits makes you no less a good person.
The very act of love is God proven.
God sees you Krumple, God is looking right at you even if you cant see yourself.
God is pleased:)

I just don't care what god thinks. My bad habits are only bad because I can't seem to find a better way to get the contentment that I seek. Try to convince me that I don't seek contentment or don't need it won't help me solve this problem. Not unless you have something to replace it with. I don't think you can replace it, because there is nothing to replace it with. I don't have a choice, as I have said in the past, I am only doing what I am most inclined to do. Sometimes influenced by chemical reactions, sometimes influenced by feelings or impressions, but they all lead to a quick fix before the next request is made. You can't replace this with some illusory divinity and solve the problem, if you could everyone would do it. I can verify that it doesn't work. Like trying to think of food to solve your hunger problem.

The sad thing is that religion does work for some. It defines the important issues as ones that are concerned with things that happen after you die, and then focuses your attention on the after-death. It replaces a quick fix with a lifelong quick fix, it is the ultimate placebo effect, sell your soul for happiness.

I agree it does work, but it also in my opinion creates other problems. It might solve some, but for as many as it solves, it tends to create others. All you really end up doing was shift the problems around, so you really are not better off, you just have different problems than someone who doesn't religion. (Yep I am aware I just used the word religion as a verb.)

So if that is the case, then it seems to me why do all of that if you are just going to shift things around a bit?

Exactly, the idea of free will breaks down in a theist's argument when you ask them "who decided to create us to endure this gauntlet?". If god is all-knowing (or even if he just had common sense), he would know that he was sending the majority of the planet to hell by creating us, so the responsibility falls back on god. Even if hell was just separation from god, it is still a matter of where free will breaks down, obviously if there is a god almost everyone would want to know!

I just want to try to address this because I think this is a good question to raise, however, I think if we examine it a bit further we can see where the flaw is.

It may be the case that no actual set of peoples exist such that if they were all in the same world together would ALL freely choose God.

What I mean is that it may be that by creating Person X, who will go to heaven, the next person, Person Y, will choose to simply do the opposite of Person X.

The point being because Person X chooses God the next person created will not choose God by virtue of the fact of not wanting to do what Person X does.

The point being it may be the case that God could create a world in which everyone is saved, however, that world consists of ONLY 1 person. So the question becomes does God's being all loving compel Him to create a world in which only 1 person exists and is saved over worlds in which millions upon millions are saved? IMO, No. Especially considering God has given sufficient grace for EVERYONE to be saved.

I just want to try to address this because I think this is a good question to raise, however, I think if we examine it a bit further we can see where the flaw is.

It may be the case that no actual set of peoples exist such that if they were all in the same world together would ALL freely choose God.

What I mean is that it may be that by creating Person X, who will go to heaven, the next person, Person Y, will choose to simply do the opposite of Person X.

The point being because Person X chooses God the next person created will not choose God by virtue of the fact of not wanting to do what Person X does.

It may be the case that God could create a world in which everyone is saved, however, that world consists of ONLY 1 person. So the question becomes does God's being all loving compel Him to create a world in which only 1 person exists and is saved over worlds in which millions upon millions are saved but some are lost? IMO, No. Especially considering God has given sufficient grace for EVERYONE to be saved.