Cam:
When speaking about religion in an empirical sense, there is normally no good reason to disagree with anything simply because there was no good reason to believe it it the first place.

Thus when speaking of religion there must be a suspension of empiricism and a retention of mysticism. Mysticism allowing an entirely different base from which to argue a point. The two bases mysticism and empiricism are often mutually exclusive.

Even though our whole lives consist of us sacrificing our desires for those of a 'greater cause/good' when we reflect we feel the sense of individuality and egoism that shows that we are not getting our way by acting in such a manner. The self in its self awareness realizes that it wants what it wants. This prompts rationalizations for self indulgent/promoting behaviors. The self being the aware self also comprises the animal self, the self which notices that it has the ability in many cases to get what it wants by acting contrary to the status quo. So it feels completely natural to not-sacrifice. Thus sacrifice comes naturally and not-sacrifice comes naturally.

Sacrifice is often not understood in the context of actually making a sacrifice. A sacrifice is a transaction not theft. Sacrifice is the voluntary relinquishment of something important in exchange for something more important. Most often it is the voluntary relinquishment of a material thing for an immaterial thing, hence the feeling of sacrifice as theft, and thus the reason sacrifice cannot rightly be discussed on a purely empirical level. However, it is highly unlikey that someone would consciously sacrifice a material thing for an immaterial thing that they deemed had less value.

Speaking specifically of religion, sacrifice becomes more specifically needed as a type of the inherent role is has in all life.

The very fact that sacrifice in its many avatars is so permiated in everything we do to maintain social order as social animals is a prime reason it is a central theme of religion. Assuming that God is the creator of all things, it stands to reason that one of the central tenets of man's natural behavior would be a central tenet to religion.

Also assuming the veracity of Christianity, why would God himself not sacrifice his son, and why would his son also being a God not sacrifice for his brethren? If we as humans maintain order through sacrifice why not God?

If there is a thread that needs to be stricken from the record, this one should.

Pornography and grace, what an insane grouping.

Damn! Do not waste time using disparaging remarks.

This is the last time I will visit this thread.

It seems moderation has gone to sleep at the helm here.

The energy, the desire, the passion, the strength and the lust which accompany its subject matter (pornography) is wanted; in this sense it can be said that pornography is just a subverted manifestation of what is wanted by God...

My original post carried almost no weight

It was the intrinsic value of the sermon i was primarily concerned with, not with it's external effects.

I would be grateful if you could exhibit the function of sacrifice in social order...Had you said it is a tool for control I wouldve agreed

...and that perhaps pornography has some special qualities which make it a suitable medium for such a manifestation.

Ok, I lied.

How much grace do you think Christ should allow before he comes back and slaps the sh*t out of us? Just how greedy do we have to get; how covetous; how lustful?

I saw a bumper sticker once that said "Christ is back and boy is he Pissed". Ha! Yeah, I guess he would be.

Ok, I lied.

How much grace do you think Christ should allow before he comes back and slaps the sh*t out of us?

Just how greedy do we have to get; how covetous; how lustful?

How much are WE going to tolerate? Huh? Just how bad does it have to get before WE do something about it?

I saw a bumper sticker once that said "Christ is back and boy is he Pissed". Ha! Yeah, I guess he would be.

Bearing false witness?

Would lies and profanity help?

Maybe threats would help?

At the time I made the statement, it was legitimate. I called it a lie to attract the likes of you. Wasn't that kind of me, Ha! The profanity was temper. Something's I am not tolerant of and it brings out the worst in me. Sorry!