A Problem of Heaven

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Lithe Oleander
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 06:29 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;108657 wrote:
Why would you love a deity that would sentence your loved one to an eternity of damnation? That just seems absurd.


Just because this person is a loved one does not make him good all around. Here is what a traditional catholic person believes:

If a person is of another creed, or agnostic, or an atheist, or whether they heard of Jesus or not, it does not mean that he will go to Hell. In this case, natural law is considered. The person is then judged by how he lived his life, whatever his beliefs may be.

Natural law is known by anyone who has a conscience. Now, if you lived by pleasure and with evil in your heart, without regret, until the moment that you die, then it is likely that this person is going to Hell, but this is not absolute. That's why we pray to lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are in most need of Thy mercy.

The person in the video is completely ignorant of that. He probably got his information from a fundamentalist or a person from a certain protestant sect.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 09:55 pm
@SJoseph,
A God who creates a Hell and creatures to put in it is unacceptable. The Jehovas Witnesses, if I am not mistaken, omit hell. They do still offer the faithful immortality. I find this attitude more generous.......
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 05:20 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;110424 wrote:
A God who creates a Hell and creatures to put in it is unacceptable. The Jehovas Witnesses, if I am not mistaken, omit hell. They do still offer the faithful immortality. I find this attitude more generous.......
For the black man who was denied access to their temples, up till recently, it was not very generous.
 
dan b
 
Reply Mon 28 Dec, 2009 11:37 pm
@xris,
Heaven is a problem only for the physical body. For the spirit or actual consciusness earth is boring and heaven is the paradise of realease from ristriction. If you yearn after righteousness as the bible says you'll have no problem getting into heaven, here and now within you and everlasting life for your spirit consciusness after.
But if you actually don't yearn after goodness, heaven forbid, but if you don't follow even the conscience that you have. Then you man return to the earth, dust to dust and then again rise as in the eastern religions reincarnation. But you man be an earth element that rises up a plants stem and gets eaten by a pig. You may become a pig. It could be hell. The world's nature goes forever round and round in circles. But God's heaven is outside of this world of actions and reactions altogether. Read the bible from a spiritual and positive attitude and you will see. dan b
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 04:05 am
@dan b,
dan b;115220 wrote:
Heaven is a problem only for the physical body. For the spirit or actual consciusness earth is boring and heaven is the paradise of realease from ristriction. If you yearn after righteousness as the bible says you'll have no problem getting into heaven, here and now within you and everlasting life for your spirit consciusness after.
But if you actually don't yearn after goodness, heaven forbid, but if you don't follow even the conscience that you have. Then you man return to the earth, dust to dust and then again rise as in the eastern religions reincarnation. But you man be an earth element that rises up a plants stem and gets eaten by a pig. You may become a pig. It could be hell. The world's nature goes forever round and round in circles. But God's heaven is outside of this world of actions and reactions altogether. Read the bible from a spiritual and positive attitude and you will see. dan b
You have invented your heaven now leave me to invent mine, without a malevolent god being present. If we had all been given the same gifts of life we would all be saved or damned, so your judgmental heaven is like all faith driven dogma,a little obscene.
 
dan b
 
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 10:33 pm
@xris,
Nature knows no conscience. Nature is survival of the fittest. Mean people belong there or under The Law not in heaven. dan b
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 04:39 am
@dan b,
dan b;115450 wrote:
Nature knows no conscience. Nature is survival of the fittest. Mean people belong there or under The Law not in heaven. dan b
So this benevolent god who made us imperfect and then damns us for our failure has a conscious, has he? Nature is neutral it does not judge us, we as humans are its conscious mind and we are far more forgiving than your damning god.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 05:08 am
@SJoseph,
S.Joseph;97494 wrote:
Which Christians are those? Only the most liberal modern day or those that don't understand the dogma of their religion. Take Roman Catholic...no take the Baptist denomination. (these are the two most popular sects)

If you don't believe that Jesus Christ is your lord and savior, you're going to hell.
If you don't believe in the trinity, you're going to hell.
If you don't believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God, you're going to hell.
If you don't believe in the resurrection, you're not a true Christian, and you're going to hell.
If you worship any other God other than the God of Abraham, you're going to hell.

*You don't hear individuals saying these things, but they will say things like "I'm not banishing you to hell, God is."

The video is saying that under these (and many more) beliefs, all Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, sinners that weren't saved, agnostics, and atheists are going to hell. The only thing the video assumes is that the viewer has a friend or family member that is in one of these categories.

Then in heaven, you have to somehow deal with knowing your brother, sister, best friend, crazy uncle, etc. is spending an eternity in fire being stung by hornets where their tears mix with their blood (as Dante depicted) instead of in paradise with you.

---------- Post added 10-14-2009 at 05:17 PM ----------

But I agree, the lighter was too much and takes away from the message.


I have been on the other side of death during a profound near death experience and I saw many people there who were absolutely not Christian. God is infinitely more merciful than the Christian fundamentalists think, even the Pope is in for a huge surprise when he finds over there he is just one on the crowd
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 05:20 am
@Alan McDougall,
Heaven does not describe god or give value to his existance Alan. Accepting that heaven is a possibility for me is not my admission that god can be comprehended. If I give him credence in heaven, I must still answer all those questions that still plague my logic on earth.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 06:41 am
@xris,
xris;115521 wrote:
Heaven does not describe god or give value to his existance Alan. Accepting that heaven is a possibility for me is not my admission that god can be comprehended. If I give him credence in heaven, I must still answer all those questions that still plague my logic on earth.


XRIS while it is true that God will remain incomprehensible, be it in heaven or earth, in my opinion, God can make aspects and attributes of his essential being understandable to mortal humans.

There are countless realms much like Jacobs ladder in the afterlife that one must climb and learn more and more knowledge about the Infinite One, but no matter how highly evolved we become God will always be an inscrutable mystery to man.
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 08:56 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;115533 wrote:
XRIS while it is true that God will remain incomprehensible, be it in heaven or earth, in my opinion, God can make aspects and attributes of his essential being understandable to mortal humans.

There are countless realms much like Jacobs ladder in the afterlife that one must climb and learn more and more knowledge about the Infinite One, but no matter how highly evolved we become God will always be an inscrutable mystery to man.
So what if did not exist Alan , would that make heaven an impossibility? would the assent of man make no sense? If understanding excludes this central figure of divine creation would we have no purpose? Understanding or comprehending might be having to accept that we could have a soul, be present in heaven without this superior entity. You can have an orchestra with a conductor but the music is more than those who create its sound. Nature maybe our god but lesser creatures its conscious creation.
 
dan b
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 10:10 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Nature is the realm of "survival of the fittest." It needs to be to contiued creating vitality in each species. Heaven and god are a world apart from this government of nature. Nature knows no kindness. If it give in , it dies. Thats good for it but not for the spirit of consciousness that is in Mankind.That is what the Bible and God and Heaven is all about.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 10:18 pm
@dan b,
dan b;115784 wrote:
Nature knows no kindness.
Nature knows plenty of kindness. On one of my trips to Africa I saw a troop of baboons that had adopted three orphaned vervet monkeys. Every time you see a mother cradling a baby you are witnessing the kindness in nature. And even if you cynically offer that kindness is a survival strategy, that's an admission that there is kindness in nature.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2009 05:55 am
@Aedes,
Hopefully heaven is like this!!


The experience of merging with the light of God is like having your body explode in a pleasant way and becoming a million different atoms. Each atom can think its own thoughts and have its own feelings. You feel all at once what it feels like to be everything and everybody.

What people call "heaven" is really our true home and destination. It is where we go for "recess" or to be rewarded by assessing our progress as a soul, evaluating our lives, and to remember all truths, including our real identity. We stay there for however long best serves our development.

Heaven is not a place of rest because no one there gets tired. It's more like a new lease on life.

Heaven is a place of imagination. Heaven is exactly what our imagination needs it to be.

In heaven, where all people really love each other, there are no inhibitions, or need for them. Everyone does exactly as they please; which works out well because only the best in each person survives, and good is all anyone ever wants to do. This allows a freedom and happiness that people on earth can't imagine.

People don't go to heaven because of their good deeds, or because they believe this or that, but because they fit in and belong. It's what you are that counts.

Each soul has a "job" to do, a position to fill in the greater scheme of things. All souls evolve.

Souls can choose to remain in heaven and operate on a particular level for eternity if they desire.

After death, each soul has to rise as best it can through a hierarchy of heavens and face the increasingly difficult challenges posed by the guardian angels of each level of heaven.

Things in heaven don't age, don't get dirty, don't wear out, and don't get tired. Everything is kept pure by God.

Our deceased pets appear in heaven the way we remember them, only younger and more vital. We can communicate with them telepathically. They also have dwelling places of their own
 
dan b
 
Reply Fri 1 Jan, 2010 12:23 am
@Alan McDougall,
3000AD - THE SECOND DEATH(Rev.20;14) = JUDGMENT DAY

............KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ON EARTH FOR 1000 YEARS in the E.U.
2000AD....................................................................................

................KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WITHIN YOU - Luke 17;21

JESUS CHRIST crucified...............................................................

................KINGDOM ON EARTH - living in the promiced land.
2000BC.....................................................................................

................Survival of the fittest period.................

4000BC......Adam and Eve follow the Serpent out of Eden..................
 
 

 
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