Christianity - What is a Christian

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avatar6v7
 
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2008 06:07 pm
@ciceronianus,
A great part of the anti-christian feeling is caused by the ridiculous attitudes to faith and relgion in America. The charismatic churchs, the materialism, the hypocrisy, the unsavoury connection with politics- all these things would probably make me an atheist if I live in the US. It saddens me to see so much resentment against a faith because message has been perverted in one corrupt system. It deeply concerns me that here in the UK evangelicals are gaining ground.
 
Solace
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 07:15 am
@avatar6v7,
Well that can explain it for Americans, but the Catholic church is often the target of a lot of anti-Christian sentiment as well, and Catholicism is far more prevelant in other countries than it is in the U.S. Everyone has their reasons, I guess.
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 07:16 am
@Solace,
Solace wrote:
Well that can explain it for Americans, but the Catholic church is often the target of a lot of anti-Christian sentiment as well, and Catholicism is far more prevelant in other countries than it is in the U.S. Everyone has their reasons, I guess.

The catholic church is an excellent institution in very many respects and outside of America you will find fewer people attacking it than you think.
 
Solace
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 07:20 am
@avatar6v7,
I might be misinterpreting how you're presenting this, but are you suggesting that anti-Christian sentiment is more prevelant in the U.S. than elsewhere?
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 08:05 am
@Solace,
Solace wrote:
I might be misinterpreting how you're presenting this, but are you suggesting that anti-Christian sentiment is more prevelant in the U.S. than elsewhere?

I am saying that despite, and perhaps becase of, there being a minority of non-christians(30%) that minority is far more anti-christian than those in other countries, even those countries with far fewer christians. This is because of the nature of christianity in the US.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 08:40 am
@avatar6v7,
avatar6v7 wrote:
A great part of the anti-christian feeling is caused by the ridiculous attitudes to faith and relgion in America. The charismatic churchs, the materialism, the hypocrisy, the unsavoury connection with politics- all these things would probably make me an atheist if I live in the US. It saddens me to see so much resentment against a faith because message has been perverted in one corrupt system. It deeply concerns me that here in the UK evangelicals are gaining ground.
Well here one concerned agnostic living in the uk..the catholics through their dogmatic approach to contraception have killed thousands of african christians..as for their arrogant approach to sainthood and possession thats nothing less than medieval..
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 08:44 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
Well here one concerned agnostic living in the uk

Oh god.
xris wrote:
the catholics through their dogmatic approach to contraception have killed thousands of african christians

and how many more have been saved through abstinence?
xris wrote:
as for their arrogant approach to sainthood and possession thats nothing less than medieval..

You say that like its a bad thing.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 09:02 am
@avatar6v7,
avatar6v7 wrote:
Oh god.

and how many more have been saved through abstinence?

You say that like its a bad thing.
With the attitude towards sex in africa for the last million years i think your claim is just a little itsy bitsy far fetched..Fire and brim stone has killed millions not just thousands and you have the audacity to defend their arrogance..exactly the motives and faith driven dogma that makes me scream with anger...so possessions are a fact are they??? and the twisting of facts to create a saint for propaganda purpose is not medieval???
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 09:26 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
With the attitude towards sex in africa for the last million years i think your claim is just a little itsy bitsy far fetched

If it doesn't change then they will die of AIDS. Contraception is at best a short term solution, and at worst could worsen the problem by encouraging people to have sex when they otherwise wouldn't have.
xris wrote:
Fire and brim stone has killed millions not just thousands and you have the audacity to defend their arrogance

So the catholics cause firestorms now? Say what you actually mean to say.
xris wrote:
exactly the motives and faith driven dogma that makes me scream with anger...so possessions are a fact are they???

I'm sorry if having views that differ from your own anger you. As to possesions I have a few things to say on the subject. For a start in many primitive cultures everything is blamed on 'devils' and you could be exorcised or mistreated for having a cold. This kind of thing was revived by many protestants in the new world. However even in the middle ages very few exorcisms were actually performed. I don't think that possesion is anything but a highly rare occurance, and in many cases may be due to a mental illness and delusion on the part of the supposedly possessed. However in some cases psychiatrists have actually reccomended exorcisms, as even if the case is a delusion, then that same delusion that causes them to believe in the power of possession will lead them to believe in the power of exorcism. There are only a handful of exorcists, and mostly they do blessings, and they work closely with pyscologists.
xris wrote:
and the twisting of facts to create a saint for propaganda purpose is not medieval???

You seem to have misunderstood me. You were using medieval as a prejorative, and I think that attitude is ignorant, bigoted, ill-informed and, as you so often accuse me of, highly dogmatic.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 09:57 am
@avatar6v7,
So this is the real you..one that can claim that contraception is only a short term measure and unwanted children and early death from aids is of no consequence...how sick an attitude........as for whether you believe or not believe in the other weird happenings in the rc church?.... i can only guess your avoiding giving your opinion....................
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 10:03 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
So this is the real you..one that can claim that contraception is only a short term measure and unwanted children and early death from aids is of no consequence...how sick an attitude........as for whether you believe or not believe in the other weird happenings in the rc church?.... i can only guess your avoiding giving your opinion....................

Attempt to write logically please. I am making the point that in the long run contraception is innefective if combined with sexual promescuity. Additionally how can I be 'avoiding' giving my opinion on the 'wierd happenings in the rc' when you haven't even told me what you regard as 'weird happenings.' What you have said I have answered. If you feel my answer was insufficent then point out how and I will be delighted to rectify that. Otherwise you are just another fanatic who refuses to actually listen to what others tell them.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 10:15 am
@avatar6v7,
avatar6v7 wrote:
Attempt to write logically please. I am making the point that in the long run contraception is innefective if combined with sexual promescuity. Additionally how can I be 'avoiding' giving my opinion on the 'wierd happenings in the rc' when you haven't even told me what you regard as 'weird happenings.' What you have said I have answered. If you feel my answer was insufficent then point out how and I will be delighted to rectify that. Otherwise you are just another fanatic who refuses to actually listen to what others tell them.
so you are against contraception? and you think the road to sainthood is faultless and honest? you also think we can be possessed by demons? that is my conclusion from your posts is that correct?
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 10:21 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
so you are against contraception? and you think the road to sainthood is faultless and honest? you also think we can be possessed by demons? that is my conclusion from your posts is that correct?

I am not against contraception neccersariy, but I think it isn't the solution to aids. I think that most saints were correctly beatified, however I am sure that there are a few among the thousands who were mistakenly chosen. I do indeed think that possession occurs very rarely, but that is merely my suspicion, I could be wrong on that point. Even if possesion is simply a mental disorder, exorcism has proved effective at treating it. So you are not particularily correct no.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 02:32 pm
@avatar6v7,
avatar6v7 wrote:
I am not against contraception neccersariy, but I think it isn't the solution to aids. I think that most saints were correctly beatified, however I am sure that there are a few among the thousands who were mistakenly chosen. I do indeed think that possession occurs very rarely, but that is merely my suspicion, I could be wrong on that point. Even if possesion is simply a mental disorder, exorcism has proved effective at treating it. So you are not particularily correct no.
so why do the RC let thousands die by their arrogant position on contraception and i see that your position on all these points is very ambilavent .
 
nameless
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 02:58 pm
@Justin,
Perhaps, when all the individual bells and whistles (superficial 'sweets' for the neophytes) are removed, the 'true Xtian, is no different in 'quality' then the 'true' Hindu or any religion's deeper practitioners.
The mystics, those who delve beyond the superficialities, from all paths converge in 'understanding/experience'.
The one quality of all mystics of any path is understanding/experiencing the 'oneness' of all, and humility, lack of ego/Pride.
Those who would argue for the 'distinction' of Xtianity, or any other 'path', is deep in the blindness and the 'sin' of pride, vanity.
All paths decry pride/ego vanity, yet the neophytes seem to laud it as if it were some kind of 'virtue'. Quite the opposite, but we must start from where we stand.
So a 'true Xtian' is humble, yet never sees himself as such; entertains no vain fantasy of 'free-will' and 'choice' (autonomy from their god (as 'god of our own world), and the universe perceived).
A person displaying these characteristics will be recognized on any path, any discipline, as a brother by anyone past the initial 'stage' of neophyte (beyond which, most never progress).
 
Justin
 
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 03:36 pm
@Justin,
Didn't realize there were two threads going on the same subject. This thread is now closed.
 
 

 
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