Heaven and Hell

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Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 11:55 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Quote:
Didymos Thomas, you are seeking merely after knowledge. Truth is not a play-toy that can be thrown around to discuss with your college friends.


Oh? And what have I done? Asked a question. You have no obligation to answer any questions, but to make distasteful comments is entirely unnecessary, not to mention using out of context scripture as a crutch.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 11:44 am
@Dustin phil,
Dustin wrote:
The amount of intellect you have was given to you by God, and yet you still trust in it. Amazing.
I certainly wouldn't trust it if I believed that. In order for me to do or try anything I need to believe that it comes from within me. If I believed that God had set a defined limit on my intellect, that would always become an excuse for underachievement.
 
Dustin phil
 
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 07:33 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
I think many Christians, even those you criticize early in your post, are able to consider heaven and hell as being non-physical, but none the less locations.


It's true, character can be seen through one's view of the world.

Didymos Thomas wrote:
We agree that Heaven and Hell, from scripture, are obviously not physical locations.


Yes.

Didymos Thomas wrote:
But would you go further with me in the claim that Heaven and Hell are allegorical,


A more correct term for Hell would be "The Lake of Fire." No, it is not a picture or story, it is real judgment.

Didymos Thomas wrote:
and not some supernatural occurrence?


Yes, supernatural. No, they are not geographical locations.

If I know all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not love, I have become like sounding brass, or a clanging symbol.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
 
RuhiWarrior19
 
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 09:57 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
 
Aedes
 
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 10:18 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Not all literary representations of Hell are as a lake of fire. Certainly Dante's Hell is far from it -- the 9th circle of Hell is a frozen lake, into which the 4 rivers of Hell empty. Satan is frozen in the center of the lake, and if I recall correctly the lake is frozen by his beating wings. The 9th circle is for traitors, which is the worst of all sins, and the sinners are frozen into the ice in varying degrees. Satan has three faces, and he's chewing up Judas in the middle face and Brutus and Cassius in the side faces (traitors against God and against Empire).
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 11:25 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Quote:
A more correct term for Hell would be "The Lake of Fire." No, it is not a picture or story, it is real judgment.


If Hell is not physical, and is instead supernatural, by what measure is it a "Lake of Fire"? If Hell is not physical, it certainly cannot be literally a lake of fire because fire, it seems, is physical; at the very least not supernatural as it can be accounted for in purely physical terms.

What do you mean by 'real judgment'? What is fake judgment?
 
Dustin phil
 
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 07:15 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas, what you are asking could easily take large volumes of books to explain entirely.

If you're interested in knowing more, I would recommend reading the Lake of Fire series from this website. While I don't agree entirely on everything the person says, it's about one of the most in-depth studies I know of.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:04 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Again, you have no obligations to answer questions I ask. Most topics on this forum have been discussed in countless volumes by men and women far more brilliant than anyone here, yet we persist with our discussions.

As for the site you provide, I have not read the series entirely, though I have read through some of the 'Lake of Fire' material.

One line I found was this "And so that leaves one more combination, and that is that the lake of fire is figurative or symbolic and that the second death is also figurative or symbolic. I am one of a very tiny group who is of this latter persuasion. "

If Hell is "figurative or symbolic" as the author says, Hell does not seem to be supernatural as you claim. Now, you did mention that you do not agree with everything in the series, which is why I asked you the questions.

I would be interested to read your answers to my above questions, though if you have no interest in explaining your claims, that's just as well I suppose.
 
Dustin phil
 
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 05:22 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Thomas, I am going to read his series again, and then get back with you to provide my thoughts. Just wanted you to know that I am not ignoring your questions. They are good questions.
 
Dustin phil
 
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2008 10:36 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
One line I found was this "And so that leaves one more combination, and that is that the lake of fire is figurative or symbolic and that the second death is also figurative or symbolic.

If Hell is "figurative or symbolic" as the author says, Hell does not seem to be supernatural as you claim.


If you earnestly desire answers to these questions, you will find them.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2008 11:44 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Dustin, what idea do you find communicated in those passages?
 
Dustin phil
 
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2008 12:09 pm
@Aedes,
That God is love and all will eventually be saved.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2008 12:46 pm
@Dustin phil,
Where does it say that "God is love"?

And if all will be saved, then how can there be a hell?
 
Dustin phil
 
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2008 02:41 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
Where does it say that "God is love"?


1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Aedes wrote:
And if all will be saved, then how can there be a hell?


The concept of hell as we see it now, had never entered the mind of God.[INDENT] Jer 7:29 Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the LORD hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.
Jer 7:30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.
Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
[/INDENT]In Matthew 25, the lord of the servants had certainly "sown" his talents with His servants. But the servant with one talent, typifies the "historical orthodox Christian church" which was in us all and is still in those who believe their Lord is the kind of being who would burn someone in hell for all eternity in retaliation for mistakes made in a life which is "as a vapor which appears for a moment and then vanishes away (Jas 4:14)." Here is how "historical orthodox Christianity" to this day views Christ:[INDENT]Matt 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Matt 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. [/INDENT]Does the Lord defend Himself against these false accusations? No, He does not. He actually agrees with this deceived "wicked servant" and says:[INDENT]Matt 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
[/INDENT][INDENT] Psa 18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
Psa 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.

[/INDENT]What the "lake of fire" will accomplish in all mankind of all times, is the same as who will have it burned away in this life.[INDENT]Mat 7:19 Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire.
[/INDENT][INDENT]Mat 13:40 As therefore the darnel weeds are gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age.

[/INDENT][INDENT]1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
[/INDENT]
This "fire" is not in any way literal. It is the love and chastening grace of God.

[INDENT]Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[/INDENT]
The lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels.[INDENT]Mat 25:41 Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;

[/INDENT]People are not bad, it's what's in them that will be burned away.
 
vajrasattva
 
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 10:28 am
@Didymos Thomas,
my deal with hell is no one should go there
 
 

 
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