true v. believed to be true

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kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 09:20 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;114717 wrote:
This is just to say that you have changed your mental-model of reality. Your beliefs have changed. You call your current beliefs "true" but these current beliefs are also subject to revision. So "true" just becomes an adjective for one's current beliefs.


That a belief is subject to revision does not mean that it is not true. I have many true beliefs, and almost all of them are subject to revision. Why should the fact that a belief is subject to revision mean it is not true? All it means is that the believer is not certain that it is true.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 09:31 pm
@3k1yp2,
I'm not saying that it's "not true." "True" is a word with many uses.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 09:46 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;114742 wrote:
I'm not saying that it's "not true." "True" is a word with many uses.


So, then, what are you saying? For what you do say confuses being certain of the truth with the truth. That a truth is revisable clearly does not imply that it is not a truth. In fact, to argue that p is a revisable truth, but not a truth, is self-contradictory. Since it implies that p is both a truth and not a truth.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 10:09 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;114748 wrote:
Since it implies that p is both a truth and not a truth.

It all depends on which theory of truth one is using. I say one has justified beliefs. These are called "truths." But "truth" is used in many ways. It's one of those words like "God" and "evil."
 
CrazyClieAqua
 
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 03:52 pm
@3k1yp2,
3k1yp2;110728 wrote:
:Not-Impressed:which of the following: emotion/intuition, reason/logic, language, and our senses (sight, taste, smell...)

least help us to distinguish what is true from what is only believed to be true?

they all have great limitations, but i'm kinda leaning towards reason&logic or senses as better than language or emotion...

I am very interested in what you had to say or shall I say the queston you asked. The only way to explain my interest would result in me going through my experience with you in order to give you my answer. That depends on if you want to read of my experience. If not . ..

In the end. I believe, going off of the notion that perception is reality, is a good start in order to find the truth in the mess. For example, with knowing if you truly love someone like you said, both people have to be open enough to determine the truth of different situations. Realizing something that they think is truth could be based on someone elses perception of a lie that that someone else thought was the truth. So both people I think need to be open to the fact that perception is reality and you have to let eachother see what the other sees to find to the real truth. . or you might loose that person for reasons that were caused by neither of you. In doing so. you have to use all things you mentioned: launguage(the way you communicate) senses(what you see, hear, interpret, etc.) emotion (if this person is really worth going through all of this to find the truth, your pains, your desires) (on another note does that mean its becuase you "truly"love them or are just curious enough and aren't fullfilled?) and last reason.. (sorting things out with solid hard facts of what has been happening). Let me know what you think?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 04:04 pm
@CrazyClieAqua,
CrazyClieAqua;118626 wrote:
I am very interested in what you had to say or shall I say the queston you asked. The only way to explain my interest would result in me going through my experience with you in order to give you my answer. That depends on if you want to read of my experience. If not . ..

In the end. I believe, going off of the notion that perception is reality, is a good start in order to find the truth in the mess. For example, with knowing if you truly love someone like you said, both people have to be open enough to determine the truth of different situations. Realizing something that they think is truth could be based on someone elses perception of a lie that that someone else thought was the truth. So both people I think need to be open to the fact that perception is reality and you have to let eachother see what the other sees to find to the real truth. . or you might loose that person for reasons that were caused by neither of you. In doing so. you have to use all things you mentioned: launguage(the way you communicate) senses(what you see, hear, interpret, etc.) emotion (if this person is really worth going through all of this to find the truth, your pains, your desires) (on another note does that mean its becuase you "truly"love them or are just curious enough and aren't fullfilled?) and last reason.. (sorting things out with solid hard facts of what has been happening). Let me know what you think?


How could emotion/intuition, or language, help us to distinguish what is believed true from what is true at all? Have you any examples of such a thing?
 
3k1yp2
 
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 10:06 pm
@CrazyClieAqua,
CrazyClieAqua;118626 wrote:
I am very interested in what you had to say or shall I say the queston you asked. The only way to explain my interest would result in me going through my experience with you in order to give you my answer. That depends on if you want to read of my experience. If not . ..

In the end. I believe, going off of the notion that perception is reality, is a good start in order to find the truth in the mess. For example, with knowing if you truly love someone like you said, both people have to be open enough to determine the truth of different situations. Realizing something that they think is truth could be based on someone elses perception of a lie that that someone else thought was the truth. So both people I think need to be open to the fact that perception is reality and you have to let eachother see what the other sees to find to the real truth. . or you might loose that person for reasons that were caused by neither of you. In doing so. you have to use all things you mentioned: launguage(the way you communicate) senses(what you see, hear, interpret, etc.) emotion (if this person is really worth going through all of this to find the truth, your pains, your desires) (on another note does that mean its becuase you "truly"love them or are just curious enough and aren't fullfilled?) and last reason.. (sorting things out with solid hard facts of what has been happening). Let me know what you think?


Certainly you are correct in saying that all four areas are quite useful with regards t the heart, but what about other matters, like in general?
 
 

 
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