Random Thought

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Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 11:41 am
If one can convince himself that a door is closing, does it close? If, at his own will, his brain can truly see it, hear it, and feel it closing, is the reality of the door altered according to his though?

In other words, can one change "reality" by giving his mind the illusion of it's change?

Sorry, this probably makes absolutely no sense, I just thought I'd throw it out there Smile
 
BrightNoon
 
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 04:18 pm
@dharma bum,
If Bob experiences himself willing the door to close, and then experiences it closing, then yes, from Bob's perspective the door has closed. That does not mean that THE door has actually closed, only Bob's door has closed. Of course, there is no THE door. We would call bob crazy only because all of our doors did not close and we did not share that experience. Sanity and reality are relative to the perspective in question.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 04:26 pm
@dharma bum,
Are you asking if you can effect a physical object with an non-physical thought?

Well according to Buddhism, even objects are objects of mind. So technically you should be able to effect all objects with thought, that is if Buddhism is correct.

There are people who claim they can move objects with thought or manipulate physical objects with their will. I have never personally seen it but there are people who can make it appear as though they have done such but it's just clever trickery of the visual sense.

Do I think we can manipulate objects by thought. Yes, all you got to do is move your hand up to the door and shut it. (thought manipulating physical object)

In fact just the movement of the hand alone is thought manipulating a physical object.
 
vajrasattva
 
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 06:03 pm
@dharma bum,
I think that if the world we see is mind, it is the universal subjective mind that we see. When I say this I mean that what we see is a manefestation of the consciousness of all the minds of sentient kind. Since it is all the minds of sentient kind, our inabilty to change it comes from the presence of other ego consciousnesses of sentient kind.
Now when a man sees a door closing in reality, it is a result of the singular objective mind interacting with the univeral subjective mind. And when this man you are speaking of is sensing what he is sensing it is his objective mind in by it self.
Their is another why that one can look at the subjective and objective mind. One can look at it in terms of consicous (objective) and unconscious (subjective). Now since in most schools of psychological thought the consicous mind is a manefestation of the unconsicous mind. One could argue that he is indeed changing reality in the subjective sense. Also if enough people were to think about the door closing it would close.
I feel that this is A proper way to look at the dharma. Considering that we are all manefestations of buddha nature, all is enlightenment and all is buddha (If you're hindu replace that with brahaman) and all is mind buddha (brahaman) would be the subjective mind. I would also like to note that subjective mind is one of the definitions of god in websters.
I would also like to note that in frudiean psychology the conscious mind is made by the unconscious to fullfill the unconsciouses needs and desires. Similar to the religious view that god created us for his glory and purpose.

Thanks

Peace & love
 
rhinogrey
 
Reply Thu 28 May, 2009 06:15 pm
@dharma bum,
Situations we define as real become real in their consequences.

With that said, you cannot feel the motion of a door closing in your mind. You've got to take your hand, exert the proper muscles and push the damn thing closed.
 
Victor Eremita
 
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 12:11 am
@dharma bum,
dharma_bum;64933 wrote:
If one can convince himself that a door is closing, does it close? If, at his own will, his brain can truly see it, hear it, and feel it closing, is the reality of the door altered according to his though?

In other words, can one change "reality" by giving his mind the illusion of it's change?

Sorry, this probably makes absolutely no sense, I just thought I'd throw it out there Smile


If this person tried walking through the door without stopping, is he blocked or does he find himself on the other side?

If the former, then yes he has convinced himself.
 
Paggos
 
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2009 06:46 pm
@dharma bum,
Funny, because you can compare this to such. People believe we saw aliens, but they know it is false and an illusion but people perceive it reality because they saw it themselves, therefore it contradicts itself in that respect because we humans see things and they work, but does it really make them true in nature?
 
richrf
 
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2009 06:53 pm
@dharma bum,
dharma_bum;64933 wrote:
If one can convince himself that a door is closing, does it close? If, at his own will, his brain can truly see it, hear it, and feel it closing, is the reality of the door altered according to his though?

In other words, can one change "reality" by giving his mind the illusion of it's change?

Sorry, this probably makes absolutely no sense, I just thought I'd throw it out there Smile


Hi,

A person may believe a door is closed and maybe something will interrupt that belief may be interrupted by going right through it and realizing it was not closed.

Things external to us are not for us to create or destroy. They are created by consensus of everything external to us. So we have a say in it, since we are connected to the event, but we do not have the final say. In other words, we participate but do not decide in total. It is a vote. Smile Everyone and everything must also have their/its say. The external won the day and decided that it was not closing. Smile Gotta do something more to get your way - maybe?

Rich
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2009 07:35 pm
@richrf,
richrf;73180 wrote:
Hi,

A person may believe a door is closed and maybe something will interrupt that belief may be interrupted by going right through it and realizing it was not closed.



Rich


So, what is that supposed to show? That it was closed, and we went through a closed door by thinking it was open? What are you saying, if anything?
 
dawoel
 
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2009 04:03 am
@dharma bum,
I'm having trouble getting my head round this one. What are you asking? Are you asking if you can change your perception of the door? (Which you can if your deprived of oxygen, on lsd or just really good at meditation) or whether you can change the "truth" of the door? Which I would say no. I don't think of it in terms of "non-physical thought affecting physical door" because I'm not convinced thoughts arn't physical, the meaning behind the imformation between thoughts ain't physical for sure, but what something means is not the same as what something "is", what they are, are neuro transmitions, in other words energy caring a certain "code" of information...I think, I'll have to check with a scientist on that one...

Anyway, back to the point at hand, energy must be involved in moving the actual door (the real door), unfortunately I doubt the energy in one's brain is the right "kind" of energy for the task. Try using kinetic energy with your limbs, then you should find it much easier!
 
parker pyne
 
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2009 12:29 am
@dharma bum,
I just totally experimented with this, and was disheartened to find out that I do not have telekenesis.
 
de budding
 
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2009 10:10 am
@dharma bum,
dharma_bum;64933 wrote:
If one can convince himself that a door is closing, does it close? If, at his own will, his brain can truly see it, hear it, and feel it closing, is the reality of the door altered according to his though?

In other words, can one change "reality" by giving his mind the illusion of it's change?

Sorry, this probably makes absolutely no sense, I just thought I'd throw it out there Smile


No. You can not change reality (i.e. shut the door) with your mind alone. 'Tis a physical impossibility. However, if you hallucinate or dream that said door is shut it is as good as it being shut in reality for you. But your wording - "if one can convince himself" - is contradictory to this idea. For, if you had indeed convinced yourself, you would still be aware of the self-convincing-process; the need for it; and thus the door not being open in reality.

You can look at this in a more pragmatic sense also and ask: if you had some how (without the use of drugs, dreaming or via any other means of involuntary hallucination) managed to fully convince yourself the door was shut and, furthermore, managed to forget that you needed to convince yourself of this in the first place. How long would it be until someone came along and walked through what you thought was a closed door without opening it?

Regards,
Dan.
 
 

 
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