I think i know more than you.

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Zetherin
 
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 11:28 pm
@Elmud,
Elmund wrote:
Your friend Dean. How do you know, mathematically, how many things he knew? How do you know, mathematically how many things Einstein knew? You can't. Not even they could give you the number.
If you don't even believe we can infer this, then I have absolutely no idea how you've come to the conclusion that older age necessitates more knowledge. How do you know?

Quote:

Let me ask this. When you pull up to an intersection, and you see that the light is red, what have you learned? You have learned that the light is red.
We don't retain everything we store in short-term memory. In fact, we forget most of it. So, you could say you have potentially experienced more than someone younger, but you don't necessarily have the knowledge to prove it. And, as I noted, that (that you necessarily experienced more) is not even necessarily true.

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Your friend Dean learns many somethings too
Dean, quite physically, cannot store as much knowledge in his memory as Einstein could. This I can infer from what is known in modern neurology.
 
Elmud
 
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 12:43 am
@Zetherin,
You reminded me of a person I knew years ago.She was so smart. Younger than me too.She was light years ahead of me in intelligence . I often thought, this lady must be a thousand years old. Thank you for reminding me of her. She so often, put me in my place. We all have a certain degree of knowledge. We all also, have a certain degree of ignorance. But you know, thinking of her, as i am now, I could not possibly apply the word ignorance to her. Again, thank you for reminding me of her.
 
nameless
 
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 02:38 am
@Elmud,
Elmud;52605 wrote:
He shared with me this statement, " you could fill a textbook with what I do not know".

But, Charles still will tell you, "you could fill a textbook with things I do not know".

It qualifies me to be almost, an ignoramus.

I hear false humility. I find that distasteful. I know that it sounds so... 'humble', but no one considers himself an (almost) 'ignoramus'. I might be reading this 'wrong', but "ego will argue it's 'humility'"; it's just a 'feeling' as I have, too, 'been there'.

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We begin learning the day we are born. We learn something every day. Doesn't matter what we learn, that is not the point. The point is, we are , if we are consiously aware, learning continuously. So, if we are learning something, beginning on the day of our birth, "again, doesn't matter what," then we accumulate a library of knowledge . Let me again stress, it is not the quality of what we learn, just the quantity.

Have you factored in the fact (and it is demonstrable) that people learn at differnt rates? One person can learn an incredible amount in an incredibly short time. The 20 year old can have more knowledge than a 60 year old. The disparate rates of learning would at the very least, I imagine, heavily affect your hypothesis that time available to learn is the sole determinant factor in the equation. I would say that without a very good study of the individual rates of learning amongst all sentient creatures, logically, your hypothesis cannot be validated and verified. Time elapsed might well be negated by individual cases. Generalities about people tend to break down at the 'personal' level'.

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So, Nameless. I'll assume, that you are a relatively young man.

Assume as you like. If you really were interested you would have asked me rather than make assumptions.

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I know, that I am a relatively old man.

See? You are the authority on you!

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Keeping in mind that we are not discussing quality, but simply quantity, who knows more?

Lets say that your assumption of my age is correct, lets make me 20 years old. As I have demonstrated (and your ego might not like) I might be a fast learner and know more than you at 100 if you are a very slow learner. Your hypothesis is flawed.

And another problem, what about the 'knowledge' that leaves your mind? More and more so as you get older! Stuff it in one end and it leaks out the back!

And the greatest learning curve is when young. It plateaus rather soon after that! Time does little to change that reality...

And, at any single moment, as I have already posted (of which you have not made mention), there is no 'room' (or 'time') for the heaps of cognitive memory/belief/thought... 'knowledge'... that you claim.
At any moment, I suggest that there is actually very little existing 'knowledge' in your awareness/perception. Your 'claim' implies 'cumulative' and I deny that there is such a thing to be demonstrable.
Old man, you are running on old and obsolete notions, or, what you call 'knowledge'!

I think that quite the opposite of your hypothesis is also true, that the older you get the less you 'know' (if wise).

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Now, Charles is older than I. Mathematically speaking, it is impossible for me to know more than Charles.

Math has nothing to do with it. And the statement is incorrect, as I have demonstrated.

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But remember, Charles stated that you could fill a book with what he does not know.

Yeah, heard it before, false humility...

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He therefore implied a great amount of ignorance residing in himself.

Yawn... (false humility is sooo boring...)

"If your abilities are merely mediocre, modesty is mere honesty; but if you possess great talents, it is hypocrisy"- Schopenhauer
(italics mine -n)

Quote:
I therefore must imply a greater amount of ignorance in myself than is in Charles.

Ok, you win! You are humbler than Charles.
Heres a secret; a truly humble person would never consder himself so. It is for others to define you as such. Such 'bookfilling statements' are 'bravado/ego', IMO.

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That is why I use the word dummy. So, Mr. Nameless. If you are younger than I, mathematically speaking, now remember, this is quantity and not quality, what does that say about you?

It says that, even though I may not have the quantity of knowledge that you might have (according to your flawed hypothesis), I am, perhaps, 'wiser' and 'smarter' than you in that I found and demonstrated the possible 'flaws' arising from your 'heap of knowledge'.

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What do you have to say for yourself. LOL.:whistling:

I say that you could fill a book with what you think that you 'know'! LOL.:whistling:
*__-

I say that from 'this' Perspective, your hypothesis fails on the various mentioned points.

"The only way that we shall ever recapture the sort of knowledge Lao-Tsu referred to in his dictum, "Those who know, do not speak", is by subordinating the question "how shall we know?" to the more existentially vital question, "How shall we live?"
To ask this question is to insist that the primary purpose of human existence is not to devise ways of piling up ever greater heaps of knowledge, but to discover ways to 'live', from day to day, that integrate the whole of our nature by way of yielding nobility of conduct, honest fellowship, and joy. And to achieve these ends, a man need perhaps know very little in the conventional, intellectual sense of the word. But, what he does know, and may only be able to express by eloquent silence, by the grace of his most commonplace daily gestures, will approach more closely to whatever 'reality' is, than the more dogged and disciplined intellectual behavior."


(With all that awful weight of 'knowledge' that you (feel that you) 'possess', how is it that you can still speak? Especially as according to Lao Tsu, "those who know, do not speak"? Was Lao incorrect? I don't know... *__-)
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 05:22 am
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
You reminded me of a person I knew years ago.She was so smart. Younger than me too.She was light years ahead of me in intelligence . I often thought, this lady must be a thousand years old. Thank you for reminding me of her. She so often, put me in my place. We all have a certain degree of knowledge. We all also, have a certain degree of ignorance. But you know, thinking of her, as i am now, I could not possibly apply the word ignorance to her. Again, thank you for reminding me of her.
I admire your defence of this thread but as im older than you i have to say i think you lost this one...What is knowledge? the accumulation of information or the ability to use what knowledge you posses..I have noticed that certain academics fail miserable when confronted with mundane day to day tasks and i have a memory that makes it impossible for me to learn such things as foreign language..fortunately we all have mixed blessings but no one should claim superiority over the other.
 
Elmud
 
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 07:22 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
I..fortunately we all have mixed blessings but no one should claim superiority over the other.

I agree. I often times, think of the elderly. I like to talk with elderly people. They have so much to share. Stories of the past. They are always eager to share with others their experiences and their opinions about things. Sometimes, I think some of us dismiss the quality of what they are able to share with others. I use to sit for hours listening to them, and even though I may have had more opportunities educationally than they did, I still find value in what they have come to know about things. and, many times, I've come to the understanding that they did know more than I. Thanks Xris.
 
BrightNoon
 
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 11:12 pm
@Elmud,
Perhaps Elmud, but what if I am Brawny and you are the generic brand?
 
Elmud
 
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2009 12:12 am
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon wrote:
Perhaps Elmud, but what if I am Brawny and you are the generic brand?

You could be right. Maybe I have a few more dormant genes than you.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2009 05:04 am
@Elmud,
You know, reading over this thread I'm reminded of another form of "I know more than you" that seems to be quite popular these days.
[INDENT] It's the condescending type that says, "You too will come around", "One day you'll understand", and "You might not understand now, but you will". This is, of course, crap; and filled with assumptions and self-glorification.
[/INDENT] If there's one thing I've learned - that I feel pretty solid about - its that everyone's head operates vastly differently. I think I understand this to a point in that I've seen a ton of people who seem to get smacked with life's lessons over and over by things that *appear* obvious. In this case, what seems 'obvious' may have nothing to do with what's going on in that person's mind.

To, again, arrogantly profess that, "You, such the poor lamb you are -have patience and you, too, will come to the light-filled place I am!" is just gut-wretchingly dripping with sanctimonious self-love and may not have anything to do with what the perceiver thinks is going on.

And yep, I've been guilty of this too; perhaps its that realization that fuels my distaste for this kind of behavior.

Thanks
 
Elmud
 
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2009 06:58 am
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:
You know, reading over this thread I'm reminded of another form of "I know more than you" that seems to be quite popular these days. [INDENT] It's the condescending type that says, "You too will come around", "One day you'll understand", and "You might not understand now, but you will". This is, of course, crap; and filled with assumptions and self-glorification.
[/INDENT]If there's one thing I've learned - that I feel pretty solid about - its that everyone's head operates vastly differently. I think I understand this to a point in that I've seen a ton of people who seem to get smacked with life's lessons over and over by things that *appear* obvious. In this case, what seems 'obvious' may have nothing to do with what's going on in that person's mind.

To, again, arrogantly profess that, "You, such the poor lamb you are -have patience and you, too, will come to the light-filled place I am!" is just gut-wretchingly dripping with sanctimonious self-love and may not have anything to do with what the perceiver thinks is going on.

And yep, I've been guilty of this too; perhaps its that realization that fuels my distaste for this kind of behavior.

Thanks

Well said Khethil. thanks.
 
Elmud
 
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2009 11:59 am
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:
You know, reading over this thread I'm reminded of another form of "I know more than you" that seems to be quite popular these days. [INDENT] It's the condescending type that says, "You too will come around", "One day you'll understand", and "You might not understand now, but you will". This is, of course, crap; and filled with assumptions and self-glorification.
[/INDENT]If there's one thing I've learned - that I feel pretty solid about - its that everyone's head operates vastly differently. I think I understand this to a point in that I've seen a ton of people who seem to get smacked with life's lessons over and over by things that *appear* obvious. In this case, what seems 'obvious' may have nothing to do with what's going on in that person's mind.

To, again, arrogantly profess that, "You, such the poor lamb you are -have patience and you, too, will come to the light-filled place I am!" is just gut-wretchingly dripping with sanctimonious self-love and may not have anything to do with what the perceiver thinks is going on.

And yep, I've been guilty of this too; perhaps its that realization that fuels my distaste for this kind of behavior.

Thanks

I am reminded of a saying by another philosopher thousands of years ago. "woe unto those who are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight".

I thought Xris nailed it on the head when he said that no one should imply superiority over another. Your post hammered it home. thanks again.
 
 

 
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