My perspective on Truth...

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Faun147
 
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 09:28 am
@kennethamy,
It's not a black and white "either you are an illusion or you are not" mentality. I'm not saying that everything is an illusion, I'm merely stating that it is a possibility- a possibility that is essential to acknowledge. It's not a conclusion.

Our entire lives, everything, is based on this reality. Although there is evidence that we exist, the manner of existence (reality) is an uncertainty.
This uncertainty ranges from world views (think Medieval world view versus todays world view) to the idea that perhaps we may be "plugged into the matrix" without a clue. As physical reality is the basis of much thought (almost all thought in science) then the importance of such an acknowledgment is rooted in the fact that the basis of this knowledge may be an illusion (or delusion). There is no strong evidence leading either way. This is why a level of objectivity as well as subjectivity is beneficial to a thinker.

Here's an example that might clear things up:
Belief in a higher being, for example, like philosophy, is not only rooted in our inquisitive nature, but also rooted in our intense level of metaphysical uncertainty. God or gods may exist, spirits, demons, angels, faeries, and trolls may or may not exist. This uncertainty is the basis of such belief.

(as for wording: although a single word in its own may be nebulous, context provides words with a level of precision. for example, in the English language, articles, prefixes, suffixes, adjectives, etc make words more precise. I'm not sure how precise my wording has been thus far, but for the most part, i've been using wording that i have found common enough in the philosophical community that i didn't feel the need to clear them up. this is because i often don't have enough time on my hands to make such lengthy posts.)
 
PoPpAScience
 
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 04:36 pm
@Faun147,
Faun147, I find myself reading your last post here over and over again. I Love the way you seem to have taken great effort to word it as carefully as possible. As I feel you already know, is that when trying to express an Idea that disagrees with the views of others, it will be picked apart based on the individual words, and not on the overall substance of the idea. That is why I am so glad that I have found this forum. The back and forth of discussion here, in a constructive nature, on the Ideas of others, leads to a refinement of expressing Ideas.

The discussion of the word "Illusion" is critical to the acceptance of the fact that we are limited in judging reality as we see it. Especially when a very, very, very, very few people on earth understand the science of "quantum mechanics". Those who do understand quantum mechanics, know that the human that they see in the mirror in the morning is made up of over 90 plus percent empty space, and the rest is made up of E=mc^2. Also, this E=mc^2 is in constant motion. So, to the overwhelming majority of people that see the human, in the mirror, as solid flesh and blood. Their reality is purely an "Illusion". An illusion of solid matter, instead of the reality of an ever changing uncertainly principle.

With the physical world seen in a Illusional frame of mind by the overwhelming majority of people. It is not hard to understand why the overwhelming majority see their knowledge of the world in an Illusionary manner. I find the perfect example of this, in the acceptance of one's Religion or Ideology as absolute fact. When the true fact is that you believe what you believe because of the environment that you live in. For example: One can swear and argue that the bible is the absolute word of God and all else is wrong. But if that person was taken away when a child, and transport to an environment, that was Muslim, they would grow up to swear and argue that the Quran was the absolute word of god. Thus this is the perfect example, that again the overwhelming majority of people live in a Illusionary view of reality.

With more then 90 plus percent of people seeing Reality, booth Physical and Mental in an illusionary way, leaves those very, very, very, very few who at least try to see reality as it actually is, in a state of wonderment.
I apologize that I have less writing experience in my 51 years of life, then any grade 12 student does in one year of study. If I could type word for word what my Mind thinks, i probably could express myself better. That is why I Love to read, the of the top of their head writings, in this forum. It is a great way to learn how to express ones self.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 05:34 pm
@NeitherExtreme,
NeitherExtreme wrote:
So I'm new to the world of philosophy, but I have been thinking for quite a while now :p Wink The nature of truth seems to be of central importance to me, and I've come to some personal ideas about truth and would like to know what some other's think of them...

I doubt I'm bringing anything new to the table, but here's where I begin:

"Truth" is what remains consistant or real regardless of a person's perception of it. "Perception" of truth is relative. But in light of my view of truth, when one perception is graded against others it can vary between completely wrong and almost right.

I'll push this idea out with the example of what I believe about the planet earth. If I say the earth does not exist, I am completely wrong, at least in any practical sense of reality. If I say the earth is flat, I am wrong in the big picture but fairly accurate for a small part of it, although very wrong for others. If I say the earth is round, I am much closer to being right but still falling short of describing the whole truth of the planet's shape. I could study and learn and describe the shape with ever-increasing accuracy, but would never come to the place where I could say that I have completely described the planet earth. But regardless of what I believe about it, the planet is what it is. I also could say something more general like "the earth is in the general shape of a sphere", which in itself may be a very ture statement, but at that point I have conceded that my statement is not the complete truth but rather a gnerealization.

It appears to me that all of human knowledge, logic, and understanding fall under these principles. In short this means to me that
1. Complete truth exists.
2. I will never have complete mastery of any part of it.
3. I can move my perception closer to or further away from the truth.

So what do you think? Surprised

P.S. I think it's worth saying that I think good "Perception" of truth can vary from one person to another even though what is true remains the same. What is to my left may be to your right. That doesn't change the postition of that object, though we might need a new way of describing it's position to have a meaningful conversation.


If you think about it in one dimension, existence is like an infinite balloon that is all, but beyond our understanding or ability to verify. Reality is a balloon inside the balloon of existence that we can know, and verify, and hope to understand; and truth is a balloon inside of reality and existence. Truth is a social concept like all others. It is a form of relationship like all other concepts. Truth is a representation of reality in part or in whole that is in some senses verifiable. Truth can be very exacting as in mathematical truth, or general, as in a truism. Like all concepts it has the meaning we give it under most circumstances. If we encounter something that is truly deadly we cannot give it a meaning other than death. If life does not depend upon it, and I cannot say with certainty when that might be, truth can mean what you want it to mean.
 
curiousjo
 
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2011 09:21 am
How can you not be sure of anything? I can be 100% sure of thinking because I am experiencing it. Whether there is an "I" doing the thinking or whatever thinking really is etc. I can be sure of it because I am experiencing it right now. It doesn't take reasoning or logic. Can you really think to yourself "I doubt I am thinking"?
 
curiousjo
 
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2011 09:21 am
Just realised how old this thread is :/
 
 

 
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