Why does loud stupidity seem to trump thoughtful logic?

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Reply Fri 17 Apr, 2009 02:30 pm
Why does loud stupidity seem to trump thoughtful logic?
This is a question I've pondered many times, and have been pondering it again lately. I've developed my own opinions about the question, but I'm interested in some input from others. I'm sure you've all run into situations where this has been true.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Fri 17 Apr, 2009 02:55 pm
@chad3006,
Logic does not really have a direct impact on one's belief system. I'm assuming this is what you mean by trump.

However, I could be wrong, so before I think about this some more I need to know in what system of thought are you applying this to.

One could just as easily say thoughtful logic trumps stupidity, and this would work all the same without labeling your system of thought.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Fri 17 Apr, 2009 02:56 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Does this post make you the squeaky wheel that gets the grease?
 
YumClock
 
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 08:59 pm
@chad3006,
Yes, if you're referring to these boards, then I believe you're honestly barking up the wrong tree.
If not, then "loud stupidity" is actually expertly done. It's the manipulation (positive or not) of emotions, the confidence of the speaker...
Or, simply, that you can never convince someone of something they don't believe. So you reiterate what they already "know."
This doesn't belong on the logic boards, because none of the answers will be strictly logical.
 
Aphoric
 
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 11:29 pm
@chad3006,
Loud stupidity is easy.

It's stable.

It's secure.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 12:44 am
@chad3006,
chad3006 wrote:
Why does loud stupidity seem to trump thoughtful logic?
This is a question I've pondered many times, and have been pondering it again lately. I've developed my own opinions about the question, but I'm interested in some input from others. I'm sure you've all run into situations where this has been true.



Hate to break it to you but Logic is not a general human trait. too many people seem to think that rational thought and logical thought are interchangeable terms. They are not. Human thought for the most part is rational, meaning that given a certain set of assumed axioms a human will is think "logically". Logical thought is abstracted from rational thought in a way that often suspends emotion, visceral experience, spiritual experience etc... Whereas rational thought can include these things in the thought process and not become irrational.

Logic has an elite status premium set making it a choice model for problem solving, however it is extremely limited in its application. Human behavior is not abstracted from emotion, biology, and chemistry and thus cannot be entirely logical. It seems to be only in circles where people inflate the practical use of logic and its value to elite status, while most of the time ignoring that they go through most of every day 'just thinking rationally' that the cry of 'the common man is stupid' comes out.

As answer to the original question the 'stupid masses' are loud because they are simply being rational given their specific belief sets, and they trump thoughtful logic because 1) thoughtful logic is often of very limited application 2) Thoughtful logic when applicable is rarely applied even by those who think it 3)thoughtful logic has an inflated cultural status but is treated simply a symbolic figurehead 4) Most people are not wired to comprehend the abstractness required to use and fully comprehend 'thoughtful logic', and 5) there are way more of them than there are of you. In my opinion that is a good thing, too many elitists ruin the broth.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:03 am
@GoshisDead,
I find it entertaining how often it is that those who toss labels like "stupidity" around are the ones actually not understanding the 'logic' of the situation. Even more common are situations where something's simply been misunderstood. Judgmentalism - on a person to person level - is poison to sharing meaning and tends to be merely an avenue for venting bitterness from arrogance

I'm not saying this is you, Chad... just something to be wary of in such claims.
 
Joe
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:54 am
@chad3006,
chad3006 wrote:
Why does loud stupidity seem to trump thoughtful logic?
This is a question I've pondered many times, and have been pondering it again lately. I've developed my own opinions about the question, but I'm interested in some input from others. I'm sure you've all run into situations where this has been true.


I see "loud stupidity" as impatience to formulate. We all have thoughtful logic in our own right. Expressing that logic in "non-sensible" statements is probably the culprit of hastiness and boldness of opinion. Contradiction is probably the final nail in the coffin, when it comes to addressing those issues. its often times a quicksand scenario.
 
Ultracrepidarian
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 04:23 am
@chad3006,
Cause stupidity isn't subtle. Really makes you think...
 
ACWaller
 
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 12:37 pm
@chad3006,
chad3006 wrote:
Why does loud stupidity seem to trump thoughtful logic?

Because it's better to be logical but it's more fun to be stupid.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 01:11 pm
@ACWaller,
Exactly why is it better to be logical? Logic has nothing to do with right and wrong. Logic has nothing to do with smart or stupid. Logic is a method, and stupid loud people are using it just as well as anyone else. Logic can end a person up in making really stupid decisions. There are variety of everyday sitiations and venues where traditional logic is really not the best processual thought tool to use. There are goals people have that require that logic not be used.
 
Ultracrepidarian
 
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 07:26 pm
@chad3006,
Because loud stupidity always gets to be the wheelbarrow
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 07:31 pm
@chad3006,
What is "loud stupidity", and how can it "trump" logic?

Even an act that is perceived "stupid" could be deemed logical. What exactly are you trying to say?
 
nameless
 
Reply Sun 3 May, 2009 02:34 am
@chad3006,
chad3006;58678 wrote:
Why does loud stupidity seem to trump thoughtful logic?

There's so much more of it, and so much closer to the 'top'! *__-
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Sun 3 May, 2009 05:51 am
@chad3006,
Horrified again here! How arrogant! What a terrible abuse of words! What bad intentions and what blatant intolerance! While "loud stupidity" is often the only available logic, while "logic" is often the reign of stupidity. "Loud stupidity" is just the discourse of the oppressed (mostly right), while "logic" is the self-given glorification of the discourse of the powerful (mostly wrong). It is but the same kind of discourse from a different perspective; if you use rhetorics (and ain't we all?) then at least be aware of this and use them honestly. Those who defend "logic" often defend the Powers that Be, while those who are "loud and stupid" are the lice in the fur, and the last of mankind. Logic is the gala-dress, loud stupidity is the prisoner's uniform; first discredit the discourse, then destroy them. And it has been done for ages and ages; what loud stupidity were the words of Jesus, how loud and stupid were the acts of von Stauffenberg (boom!!). Sorry but I have to scream now, as loud and as stupid as I can, and completely illogical. Aaaaaaaaaaaarghh!!!!
 
Ultracrepidarian
 
Reply Sun 3 May, 2009 06:57 am
@Catchabula,
because loud stupidity always hides the remote
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Sun 3 May, 2009 09:55 pm
@Ultracrepidarian,
Bula:
Think we could have a synchronized international "scream for stupidity"? It could be like 'Race for the Cure' or 'Farm Aid'.
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 03:18 am
@chad3006,
Could be logical and far from stupid. I personally prefer 'Hug the World' ;-) .
 
Ultracrepidarian
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 09:30 am
@chad3006,
If screaming for stupidity is logical and far from stupid, then count me out.

"'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
- Lincoln
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 11:04 am
@chad3006,
Of course this is right, but you didn't got my point (or refused to see it). "Logical" and "rational" are often manipulated qualifications. If you dared to say that Stalin's discourses were not logical, rational, realistic and simply genius, you could end up in Siberia. I refuse that kind of "logic", I scream not for stupidity in an absolute sense (in that sense it does not even exist imho), but against the usurpation of rationality and "logic" in a power-infested discourse. I scream not for stupidity but for freedom, as for those who are in power it is always stupid to scream for freedom. It's all very obvious really...

But perhaps you are right. Those who are logical will be more truthful and those who seek for the truth will express themselves logical. Those who are stupid will be unable to see the logic in your discourse and will proove to be even more stupid when they stubbornly refuse to see it. They react with loud stupidity because they sense the overwhelming superiority of your logic and the general quality of your discourse, and of course while they are dumb and loud and stupid by nature. If they were clever they would appreciate your logic and become convinced by it and they would be silent and respectful instead of reacting with loud stupidity. If they reacted logically there would even be a chance that they would really be heard and perhaps they would even be respected, but in the end they would agree with you, because logic is logic and your discourse is built on it. Sorry if I made things more complicated than they were. I was really stupid of me to do so. :whistling:
 
 

 
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