what is time ? once and for all

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north
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:33 pm
time is the measurement of duration ( time for some ) between things

caused by the Nature of the properties of elements and the interactions with other elements

time is fundamentaly movement(s) of some sort , by three dimensional particles
 
TuringEquivalent
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:37 pm
@north,
north;165110 wrote:
time is the measurement of duration ( time for some ) between things

caused by the Nature of the properties of elements and the interactions with other elements

time is fundamentaly movement(s) of some sort , by three dimensional particles


There is also the view that time is a fundamental aspect of the world. By this, i mean it cannot be explained away by anything.
 
north
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:43 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;165112 wrote:
There is also the view that time is a fundamental aspect of the world. By this, i mean it cannot be explained away by anything.


yet when we go deeper we understand that time is not an enitity in and of its self

time is based on objects first and fore-most

without objects , time has no independent existence
 
Gnostic
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:53 pm
@north,
north;165113 wrote:
yet when we go deeper we understand that time is not an enitity in and of its self

time is based on objects first and fore-most

without objects , time has no independent existence


But you could say the same for objects couldn't you? Can objects have an existence independent of time?

I always saw time as relative change or the how we measure change in motion-happening.
 
north
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 09:01 pm
@Gnostic,
Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
yet when we go deeper we understand that time is not an enitity in and of its self

time is based on objects first and fore-most

without objects , time has no independent existence




Gnostic;165115 wrote:
But you could say the same for objects couldn't you? Can objects have an existence independent of time?


yes

because objects are based on substance , not on a measurement of movement

Quote:
I always saw time as relative change or the how we measure change in motion-happening.


based on ..... objects movements

true..?
 
TuringEquivalent
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 09:09 pm
@north,
north;165113 wrote:
yet when we go deeper we understand that time is not an enitity in and of its self

time is based on objects first and fore-most

without objects , time has no independent existence



I don ` t see a reason here. Do you like to state something without any justification?
 
prothero
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 09:10 pm
@north,
north;165113 wrote:
yet when we go deeper we understand that time is not an enitity in and of its self

time is based on objects first and fore-most

without objects , time has no independent existence

Time is based on change.
How do you time is not based on events?
How do you know objects are not simply enduring or stable events?
and lets talk about temporality (sequencing of events) as time.
 
north
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 09:16 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
yet when we go deeper we understand that time is not an enitity in and of its self

time is based on objects first and fore-most

without objects , time has no independent existence





TuringEquivalent;165125 wrote:
I don ` t see a reason here. Do you like to state something without any justification?


how do you not see the reasoning ?

if devoid of objects , how does one calculate time in any degree ?
 
Gnostic
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 09:51 pm
@north,
north;165121 wrote:
based on ..... objects movements

true..?


Sort of. How we see the change of happening. But I won't limit it to objects. There is a sense of time when we dream too.


north;165121 wrote:

yes

because objects are based on substance , not on a measurement of movement


Really? I'm sure there was a time when the ancients didn't think that rocks moved at all. But now we see that even the rocks are made up of tiny particles that move. Can anything exists @ 0 kelvin?

Everything is in motion.
 
north
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 09:57 pm
@Gnostic,
Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
based on ..... objects movements

true..?


Quote:

Sort of. How we see the change of happening. But I won't limit it to objects. There is a sense of time when we dream too.


we dream from the culmination of the body cellular objects

and experience(s) of the without

---------- Post added 05-17-2010 at 12:04 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
yes

because objects are based on substance , not on a measurement of movement


Quote:
Really? I'm sure there was a time when the ancients didn't think that rocks moved at all. But now we see that even the rocks are made up of tiny particles that move. Can anything exists @ 0 kelvin?

Everything is in motion.


yes , Everything is in motion , based on the objects themselves

Can anything exist @ 0 Kelvin ?

yet to know
 
Gnostic
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 10:20 pm
@north,
north;165149 wrote:

we dream from the culmination of the body cellular objects

and experience(s) of the without


Fair enough


north;165149 wrote:

yes , Everything is in motion , based on the objects themselves


Everything is in motion and everything is an object.

Why then is the object what everything is based on and not the motion?

They appear to be dependent on each other as far as I can tell. If so one should not be seen as more or less fundamental.
 
prothero
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 10:22 pm
@north,
Time is the sequencing of events (change in the world) from a particular point of reference.
Fundamental reality is change (process, events) not "static objects" hence the confusion of those who think of the world in terms of "objects" instead of in terms of "events".
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 10:30 pm
@north,
I argue, yet again, that time is the byproduct of memory and the concept of a desired future. A creature with absolutely no memory simply could not experience change and create an abstraction associated with this change. How is change perceived unless the present can be compared to a remembered past?
 
wayne
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 10:37 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;165166 wrote:
I argue, yet again, that time is the byproduct of memory and the concept of a desired future. A creature with absolutely no memory simply could not experience change and create an abstraction associated with this change. How is change perceived unless the present can be compared to a remembered past?


Time, then, is a measurement of change. Created by beings with memory, to organize events into linear order.
 
TuringEquivalent
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 10:38 pm
@north,
north;165129 wrote:


how do you not see the reasoning ?

if devoid of objects , how does one calculate time in any degree ?


Suppose it is devote of objects, and any mean to "calculate". It does not follow that time is dependent. Time might still be independent, and existing in the background.
 
Flying Dutchman
 
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 12:24 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
I don't believe objects move through time if they are (really) not moving through space.
 
Gnostic
 
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 04:55 pm
@wayne,
wayne;165171 wrote:
Time, then, is a measurement of change. Created by beings with memory, to organize events into linear order.


I like this definition.
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 07:58 am
@wayne,
wayne;165171 wrote:
Time, then, is a measurement of change. Created by beings with memory, to organize events into linear order.


Time is notcreated by beings with memory. If time is a mental state only and not a real phenomenon how then does a being come about possessing memory in the first place?
 
 

 
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