Since determinism is false, the only option left for free will is Libertarianism. .

Whoa! Are you arguing that determinism was believed to be why free will is true, and that if determinism is false, and if free will is true, then we need some other reason (other than determinism) that free will is true?

But, since when was determinism cited as a ground for free will?

I would have thought that it had been cited as a ground for the falsity of free will.

Indeed, isn't Libertarianism exactly the position that there can be free will only if determinism is false?

Since determinism is false, the only option left for free will is Libertarianism. Some philosophers claim that if our will is indeterministic then it is random and therefore unpredictable. If our behavior is unpredictable then we can't be morally responsible. Therefore we aren't morally responsible. However, it is false that randomness implies unpredictability.

Given a lump of radioactive material with a known half-life, we can predict how much matter will decay within a specific period of time even though the decay process is completely random. Obviously, it is possible for none of the matter at all to decay or all of it to decay but those possibilities are remote.

In the same way, there is a remote possibility that we will suddenly murder someone even though we decided against it. Of course, in those remote cases, we really have lost our free will in the same way any other person with a defective brain has lost their free will. Of course, our brains are not usually defective simply because evolution doesn't favor it and couldn't even get us this far if such defects were common.

Yes, the universe is random but that doesn't mean it has to be like the white noise on our old TV screens, with no pattern and nothing interesting to look at. Randomness can produce any pattern, including the amazing regularities of the human brain, where we freely decide to do something and then we do it.

Of course, that our actions follow from our wills is random luck but as long as this luck is predictable in our daily lives, we can ignore that luck factor. We can also predict that the gun powder in our shells will be ignited by the primer charge and fire the bullet even if that prediction is only 99.999% (non-repeating) instead of 100%. That's all that is required for moral responsibility.

---------- Post added 05-08-2010 at 08:44 AM ----------

Everything is random. Including what I will. The reason why this isn't a problem is the same reason why we can sit here and have this conversation. Randomness doesn't imply that we can't have regular patterns. Patterns such as the electrons traveling along copper wires and photons traveling along optical wires. These patterns, while existing randomly, are still very predictable.

Some people think that randomness implies that the Sun could just vanish. They are right but that doesn't imply that it is likely to happen.

No. I'm arguing that if determinism is false then soft determinism is false. Therefore the only remaining option for an account of free will is Libertarianism.



I don't know what you mean by "ground" but many people believe that determinism is required for free will. They believe that Libertarianism is just randomness and there's no room for will in that.



Only if you're an incompatibilist. Like I said before, some people think determinism is required for free will, which is why they dislike Libertarianism.



Maybe, but I'm not here to argue that since determinism is false. I'm not interested in what the hypothetical consequences would be if it were true. And since determinism is false and we also have free will, the only option is Libertarianism.

2. If determinism is false, then there is no free will. (Night Ripper)

Eh, no, that's the anti-Libertarianism view. I think that free will can still exist even if determinism is false, which it is. I'm a Libertarian. Do you understand now? Probably not. :brickwall:

For the sake of argument, let's assume that determinism is false and that we have free will. Wouldn't you agree that the only view that could fit with this state of affairs would be Libertarianism? What other option admits to determinism being false and humans having free will?

On the contrary, you yourself argued that unless determinism is true, there is no free will.

Don't you agree with those people who believe that determinism is required for free will?