Nihilist propositions that nothing matters are only true if people have no desires.

You're actually arguing for nihilism, not against it. Nihilism is the belief that nothing matters intrinsically. The fact that you care about yourself isn't an argument for why you matter. You may care about yourself but I wouldn't even notice if you had never existed.

I know. I'm arguing that Nihilism is true but irrelevant and useless.

Whether or not something is relevant or useful to living is a matter of taste. There is no disputing about taste.

Whether or not something is relevant is not a matter of taste, it's a matter of significance. And whether or not something is useful is not a matter of taste, it's a matter of utility.

Significance and utility are also matters of taste. You might think some things are significant and useful that I don't. Who is to say which of us is right?

Why thanks! I came of age in the 60's so a lot of what I say is out of the genre of 'baby boomer spirituality'. I had some spontaneous spiritual realizations in my late childhood, which were really very like memories of a previous life, although there was no detail of what that might be, other than the sense that one had known something of great significance which was right 'on the tip of the tongue', while remaining elusive (strong resemblance to Plato's 'anamnesis', I realized later). Then in my teenage years, numerous experiences with entheogens, which led to a realization of a 'higher awareness' although one impossible to sustain by those means. This was followed by the discovery of Eastern spiritual masters including Paramahansa Yogananda, Swami Vivekananda, Ramana Maharishi, and Krishnamurti. Then I discovered Buddhism and have been practicing Buddhist meditation more or less ever since (with frequent and regrettable lapses.....)

All of this has given rise to a distinct sense of being 'outside' the Western view of life, in some ways. (Mind you this was a deliberate aim of the 60's counter culture.) The Indian view of life is different to the European, and 'dharma' is fundamentally different to religion. It is experiential and inclusive, rather than dogmatic and exclusive. The basic attitude to life is that one is solely responsible for what happens; there is no vindictive deity keeping score and meting out punishments, but a succession of states of existence, each of which largely depends on the quality of your intention in the prior one. There is also an over-arching state of awareness which the spiritual masters realize, variously known as nirvana, moksha, liberation, or enlightenment, and which we are engaged in pursuit of through many lives. That is the basic view of Indian spirituality.

When I went to Uni, in Sydney, in the late 70's, I was struck by how prominent the assumed non-existence of God was in the humanities subjects. Philosophy and psychology at the time were largely behaviourist, marxist, positivist, or some other form of materialism or atheism. I formed the view that Western culture was in a centuries-old movement away from religion as defined by them. I mean, these same academic atheists would have been, 500 years previously, prelates and curates and bishops of the One True Church. Having spent millenia forcing their version of God down everyone's throats, they were now convinced that it had all been a delusion. So here we are and it is still going on.

Now I know what I have said here contains sweeping generalizations, I have recently been thoroughly flamed for having what some think is debased view of Western intellectual culture. C'est la vie. That anyway is the background to my philosophical thinking, such as it is.

If we're trying to fix a leaky gasket and someone brings a band-aid, that's not useful. And it won't become useful just because that person says he believes it's really a matter of taste what's useful and what's not.

I personally define spirituality as emotional and psychological congruence, that ability to transcend dilemmas and view our core values we will uphold - an intellectual and moral nobility. This is what infuses value, and by having such a strong emotional connectivity to our beliefs means we hold them as real or objectively present in the universe. This therefore thwarts nihilism and by extension leads one to believe the universe personifies our core values.

I view education as intellectual liberation, the pathway to view new perspectives and test your own beliefs not a reaffirmation of what your parents have been told - "My ancestors believed in this and were good people, so I will too!" Or even worse, a believer fears the repercussions of deviating from the religious doctrine. I find psychologically coercive indoctrination, that is by threats such as "hell fire" or whatever other torturous means, abhorrent.

Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" - then you should abandon them.'....

"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' - then you should enter & remain in them.

Unlike yourself, I lack the higher education and the age to have been brought up with diverse religious belief - I am an intellectual youngster compared to most of the people who frequent this board. My transition from boy to man has just occurred, although I feel older than I am in both mind and body - I often get mistaken for being a lot older than I am. I know this may seem an unusual request, but does this thinking fit into your personal experiences? At present, I feel very alone in my thinking.