Spacetime Cosmology

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Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 07:32 pm
Please make a critical analysis of this one. I found this somewhere.

THE MEASUREMENT OF CORPOREAL ACTIVITY: SPACE AND TIME

1. Space

1.1 Description of Space

We know that bodies naturally are in place which was defined as: the immovable surface circumscribing a body. nevertheless bodies are said to be distant from each other insofar as each one of them occupies a place which is separate from another place. Moreover, a certain body is moved from a place into a place. From distance and motion arises the notion of space which is understood as the sum of all places.

Space is commonly understood as an immense receptacle in which bodies move. It is in this manner also that space is understood by physicists who formulate the laws on motion in Mechanics. Space is therefore connected with extension and place. Nevertheless it is distinguished from both in the following senses:

1) Space differs from extension from the common manner of speaking since:

a) extension is contained by space; space is understood as something containing (that is, a receptacle)
b) corporeal extension is not vacuous; space can be a vacuum;
c) extension is naturally impenetrable; space is understood as immovably penetrable.

2) Space differs from place from the common manner of speaking since:

a) place is a surface and thus needs only length and breadth; to space is added altitude and thus requires three dimensions;
b) place is a limited surface; space is understood as unlimited;
c) place indicates only the circumscribing or containing surface space indicates that which contains and the distance among the located bodies.

1.2 The Question on Space

Along with physicists, while we ordinarily have no diffulty talking about space, on the other hand, philosophers who look into supreme causes of things, pose well-known questions regarding space. The problem expressed thus:

What is space? Is it something real or objective in nature? is it something purely subjective? Or is it some mean between subjective and objective?

1) Ultrarealism or exaggerated objectivism teaches that space is an objective reality distinct from the body. They explain in in either of two ways:
a) according to the ancient (Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus) and modern (Gassendi, 17th century) atomists, space is some immense and real vacuum, neither a substance nor an accident, but is a genus of its own. Today, many physicists hold this view.
b) according to Newton and Clark (17th Century), space is the immensity of God himself.
2) Idealism or exaggerated subjectivism teaches that space is in no way anything real, but rather, it is a subjective state of perceiving. The Kantian doctrine on space is well-known:according to him, things are known by us in space, not because they are really in space, but because our faculties (our senses) represent them in space, like one who has red colored glasses sees everything as red. in the same way our senses represent everything to be in space because space is a native a priori form of our sense. Hence, things of nature are place by perception in space, not offered to perception in space.
3) Moderate Realism (modern objectivism, moderate subjectivsm) teaches that space is partly objective and partly subjective.

to understand this doctrine, the following must be noted:

a) space implies an extension of three dimensions, which
b) consists of a receptacle of many bodies, so that bodies have distance among themselves and are move from place to place.

From this we can say:

a) Extension is real in bodies; it really makes up a certain receptacle. Hence, the extension of three dimensions, insofar as it is occupied by bodies and measures bodies, is called real space, that is, really existing and objective. It is of this space that we along with physicists, commonly speak. It is called physical space.
b) The extension of three dimensions, if it is not considered as occupied by bodies (vacuum) and indefinite, as some immense receptacle, makes up an imaginary space, dealt with by poets or persons similarly.
c) The extension of three dimensions considered abstractly, that is, not occupied by bodies, but can be occupied by them, constitute ideal or absolute space, dealt with by mathematicians in Geometry. It is also called mathematical or geometrical space.


While imaginary space is a product of the imagination, ideal space is a concept universally expressing the three dimensions as capable of containing and measuring bodies. These three dimensions capable of containing and measuring bodies is not real, but is referred to the real extension of bodies (real space), from which reason obtains it.

Wherefore absolute space (or simply space) is a pure concept having foundation in reality or is a being of reason with foundation in reality. A being of reason or non-real being fabricated by reason or obtained by reason through the removal of the limits found in real space. Space is therefore something subjective ( a being of reason) but nevertheless founded on something objective (with foundation in reality), that is, it is not formally but only fundamentally real.

Let it be thus:

Absolute space
1. is not something formally objective;
2. neither is it something formally and absolutely subjective;
3. but is something formally subjective and fundamentally objective (a being of reason with foundation in reality.

Proofs of the Thesis.

Part I
Absolute space is not something formally objective.)

Arg.1 (Because a vacuum cannot be real.)

That which is real (except for God) is limited, mobile and temporary. But space, according to the atomists, is a vacuum, immeasurable and eternal as a container of bodies. Therefore, space in the terms of the atomists, is not a real being.

Those that are neither substances nor accident cannot exist in nature.

Arg.2 (Because God is most simple)

Against Newton and Clark. No extension can be in God who is most simple. But if space is the same as the immensity of God, there would be extension in him. Therefore space is not the same as the immensity of God.

This doctrine is dangerous, because it leads to pantheism or the identification of God and the world.

Part II (Absolute space is not something formally and absolutely subjective as an a priori form of sensibility.)

If space is a pure form of human sensibility, extension would in no way exits because it is connected with space. But extension exists in things. Therefore space is not a pure form of sensibility.

As seen from the argument, the refutation of the Kantian doctrine is founded in the reality of extension, on which arises a question in Gnoseology, on account of the relationship between knowledge and reality. Therefore, the whole Kantian doctrine is presented and refuted.

Part III (Absolute space is a being pf reason with foundation in reality.)

1) Absolute space is a being of reason. There is a being of reason if it is accepted as a being which is not a real being. But space is accepted as a being (ideal being) while it is not a real being. Therefore, space is a being of reason, that is, something having logical or imaginary value.

Declaration of the minor. Truly, absolute space is accepted as a pure complex of three dimensions capable of containing and measuring all bodies. This is not however truly a being actually existing in reality. Nevertheless, it is accepted as being because we apply many predicates on space: big, small, immense, etc.

2) Absolute space has foundation in reality. Space is a being of reason with foundation in reality if it is necessary referred to the three dimensions of bodies which is real space. But in fact, space is referred to the three dimensions of bodies. Therefore, absolute space is a being of reason with foundation in reality of the measuring corporeal extension.

Conclusion . Extended bodies really exist. Bodies really have distance from each other, they move are measured in space which is made up of the three dimensions measuring bodies. But absolute space, as an immense and immobile complex of measuring dimensions, is a certain product of reason with foundation in reality of the measuring corporeal extension.

With this manner of thinking, we can say that absolute space can be called: the manner of movement according to here and there; the reality of the movement of a body does not imply the absolute reality of the measurement, except the very extension which establishes the conception of measurement. In the creation of new bodies extension is increased. The possibility of new measuring extension offers to us possible space, which is part of absolute space.


(I'd like to know your opinions regarding this post, whether this is metaphysically consistent with Einstein's theory of General and Special Relativity)


 
validity
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 08:42 pm
@Patty phil,
Hello Patty,

Generally,

THE MEASUREMENT OF CORPOREAL ACTIVITY: SPACE AND TIME, is a good example of pseudoscience. The use of the term god is an alarm bell to this.

The views is puts forth are generally inconsistent with what has been proven by relativity.

Metaphysically, and in terms of relativity, space is not absolute. Any idea that proposes the opposite to this is immediately inconsistent with relativity.

If you want any specifics, I will do my best to answer them.
 
Patty phil
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 11:23 pm
@Patty phil,
In what way? Is it primarily because Relativity states that objects have space and are not in space?

What I find interesting in this article is how it tries to explain the ontological and logical value of space, which is something I believe is beyond the scope of Einstein's relativity,wherein it reconsiders the realm of consciousness when considering the value of Space.
 
urangutan
 
Reply Tue 14 Jul, 2009 05:20 am
@Patty phil,
Space is beyond the barriers of a gravities hold on substance.
 
validity
 
Reply Tue 14 Jul, 2009 04:43 pm
@Patty phil,
Hello Patty
Patty;77143 wrote:
In what way? Is it primarily because Relativity states that objects have space and are not in space?
Relativity states that space, the measured distance between objects or events, is not absolute. It changes, depending on the way in which you are moving with respect to that which you are measuring. If an object has space, this is not absolute either.

Patty;77143 wrote:
What I find interesting in this article is how it tries to explain the ontological and logical value of space, which is something I believe is beyond the scope of Einstein's relativity,wherein it reconsiders the realm of consciousness when considering the value of Space.
The ontological value of space may be beyond the scope of relativity. Not becuase relativity is weak in some way, rather it is a physical theory and not a philosophical theory.

Hello urangutan
urangutan;77154 wrote:
Space is beyond the barriers of a gravities hold on substance.
Gravity's hold on a substance does not reach zero.
 
ValueRanger
 
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 09:18 pm
@Patty phil,
Hi Patty, I like your axioms.

Consider the gravity of the situation, in hierarchical need. Even the wildest idea is plausible, if far removed from current hierarchical sequiturs, given quantifiable need.

Also, a wonderful exercise, inline with balancing subjective/objective sequitur, is mapping your subjective trajectories, with peer objectives. Peer objectives are anything else in space and time, that you direct your energy in sequitur/sequence/consequence with. So, in essence, when you post a general article object on a forum, sequitur it to your own special (specific, or, subjective) relativities.

Then, when you start to understand hierarchical human momentum, you can pursue relative peer problem solvers, and enjoy a more monumentous life.
 
richrf
 
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 06:16 am
@ValueRanger,
Hi Patty,

There are so many points of discussion, it is difficult to know where to begin, and I am not sure it is relevant to you at this time, but briefly:

1) One cannot discuss space without discussing its entanglement with time, anymore than one can discuss length without discussing its entanglement with height and width. It is all one, at least in the way Relativity describes it. Discussing it separately would be more Newtonian in nature, which is no longer considered an adequate description of the macro physical world.

2) One must also take into account that length in space of an object contracts relative to a stationary reference point.

A rigid body that has a spherical shape when measured in the state of rest thus in the state of motion - viewed from the stationary system - has the shape of an ellipsoid:

What does an object look like when moving at nearly the speed of light?

3) That as we go deeper and deeper into the micro world, space losing all meaning, to the point that the space (location) of elementary particles cannot be determined without measurement that would disturb their momentum.

In quantum physics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states that certain pairs of physical properties, like position and momentum, cannot both be known to arbitrary precision. That is, the more precisely one property is known, the less precisely the other can be known. It is impossible to measure simultaneously both position and velocity of a microscopic particle with any degree of accuracy or certainty.

Uncertainty principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4) While in a dream state everything seems as real as when you are awake, yet space and time do not exist as we know it in the awake state. Any theory about space and time should take this state of being into account, since both are just as real as one is experiencing them.

So, as you can see, the problems associated with what is space and extension is quite difficult to pin down nowadays. Much less comfortable than it was with the hard reality of Newtonian mechanics.

Hope you find this analysis interesting.

Rich
 
urangutan
 
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 06:06 am
@Patty phil,
Validity, I never said it was not still present, simply that at some point, gravity has no hold on a substance. Like comparing a sea to an ocean, gravity will hold to the distance of a sea, yet still be a force in the ocean. Beyond our atmosphere is called outer space, though it is called a distance between the earth and the moon.
 
validity
 
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 04:40 pm
@urangutan,
urangutan;78784 wrote:
Validity, I never said it was not still present, simply that at some point, gravity has no hold on a substance.
And I never said you said it was not present. The only response I made to your comment was Gravity's hold on a substance does not reach zero.

I am still trying to understand where the idea of that at some point, gravity has no hold on a substance comes from. Are you able to provide a more detailed description, for example in an idealised situation of the universe only containing the earth and moon system, how far does the moon need to be away from the earth that the earths gravity has no hold on the moon and the moons gravity has no hold on the earth. If there is another example you prefer to use, please.
 
urangutan
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 05:03 am
@Patty phil,
I am sorry Validity I don't get the conclusion of your question. I get the distance point, to which I have no answer but the example portion has me a little stumped. Do you want another example of the moon, earth relationship or something different altogether.

Sarcastically, I would say that the hold does reach zero. If an object cannot be drawn in return to the force of gravity, then that substance is beyond the hold of said gravity.

Would you consider that light is the complete opposite of gravity, if the equation read that light never equals gravity, through zero or pulse.
 
validity
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 04:50 pm
@urangutan,
urangutan;78957 wrote:
I am sorry Validity I don't get the conclusion of your question. I get the distance point, to which I have no answer but the example portion has me a little stumped. Do you want another example of the moon, earth relationship or something different altogether.

Sarcastically, I would say that the hold does reach zero. If an object cannot be drawn in return to the force of gravity, then that substance is beyond the hold of said gravity.
urangutan;78957 wrote:
Would you consider that light is the complete opposite of gravity, if the equation read that light never equals gravity, through zero or pulse.
No I would not consider that light is the complete opposite to gravity. What equation are you taking about? This may help me understand your point more.
 
urangutan
 
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:38 am
@Patty phil,
Gravity has no centre, as it is not any form of particle. Light is not emmitted from the centre of a star because if it did, then the star would simply be light and nothing else.They both share common place beyond the centre of their host and exist in opposing directions. Inside this is zero, in relation to their forms. Pulse is opposite to both in that it is self expanding and contracting. Light from one source can pass onto the centre of another source of light which is beyond the point of formation. Light can pass through zero.

The question now is, does gravity exist to form centre, when in doing so it would force inwards upon the substance that it surrounds. Combining or joining material would extend the boundary gravity shrouds. Is gravity holding the substances together or forcing them to remain connected together. Do we find it that our own gravity forces gases from the body, creating the solid mass, in the bountiful, beyond our atmosphere or does the "vacuum" of space draw it out.

0. Absolutely nothing
1. Ideas, in the mind
2. Images on paper
3. Creation of product

Here the opposite of 2 is 3, 1 is the immediate opposite of zero, so 4 is the effect that 3 has on zero.
 
validity
 
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 05:52 pm
@urangutan,
urangutan;79213 wrote:
Gravity has no centre, as it is not any form of particle.
Okay ditch the particle bit. On a sphere of uniform density, there is a localised region where all bodies on the sphere are attracted to.

urangutan;79213 wrote:
Light is not emmitted from the centre of a star because if it did, then the star would simply be light and nothing else.
In stars such as the sun, photons are created during the Proton?proton chain reaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . This reaction requires certain conditions i.e. large temperature and large pressure. These conditions are only present in the stellar core.

urangutan;79213 wrote:
They both share common place beyond the centre of their host and exist in opposing directions. Inside this is zero, in relation to their forms. Pulse is opposite to both in that it is self expanding and contracting. Light from one source can pass onto the centre of another source of light which is beyond the point of formation. Light can pass through zero.
Their common place has yet to be demonstrated.

urangutan;79213 wrote:
The question now is, does gravity exist to form centre, when in doing so it would force inwards upon the substance that it surrounds. Combining or joining material would extend the boundary gravity shrouds. Is gravity holding the substances together or forcing them to remain connected together. Do we find it that our own gravity forces gases from the body, creating the solid mass, in the bountiful, beyond our atmosphere or does the "vacuum" of space draw it out.

0. Absolutely nothing
1. Ideas, in the mind
2. Images on paper
3. Creation of product

Here the opposite of 2 is 3, 1 is the immediate opposite of zero, so 4 is the effect that 3 has on zero.
This does not help me understand your point. PS you left out 4.
 
 

 
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